New Usage for Points

[darker hei]

I'm not against any new idea to spend points, but I wonder how many gadgets aarin has to come up with to satisfy every millionaire/billionaire on this site. I realize interests are diverse, but reasoning for new suggestions often mention the poor bored millionaires/billionaires who can't come up with anything to do with their points. Do people get more hungry for entertainment as their points increase and do they feel more of a right to have their individual tastes catered to?

Just because you have points, does not mean they all have to be used. If people with loads of points were concerned about this, they would've just dumped 80% or more of their points in what activities are currently available and with capped interest, the points they owned would still be high, but obviously not as grossly so.

Right now a lot of people are discussing ideas to give the millionaires/billionaires outlets for their loads of points, the flipside of this coin as usual is that this will be another activity newbies will not be able to equally join in on. So another charity group will have to be created, because for some reason new newbies can't be asked to just work for and accumulate points the same way newbies before them had to.

A newbie today needs about four weeks to achieve the same status a newbie from two years ago needed at least one year to accomplish. And they don't have to upload anything, mostly, all that needs to be done is to post in a few of the charity threads and voilà, you have everything most people two years ago had to actually work and wait for.

Wait being the really operative word here. I don't know why it's now necessary for people to join and have everything available to them instantly. In my opinion, this gives them much less reason to stick around. One of the attractive points to me on this forum was the fact you had things to work for. Sure, you would get gifts here and there, but this just made you hot to save and earn your own points to be able to give others fun surprises like that.

These days, I personally don't much enjoy this activity anymore, because unless you're actually trawling the introduction threads, it's hard to find anyone anymore who isn't already loaded with cards and points. To me, gifting turned into a franchise and has grown less personal. And newer members will never realize how much of their own fun has been curtailed. It may be fun to receive all the bounty now, but the boredom that keeps calling for more gadgets on this forum will just set in all the sooner. So you'll be back in suggestions, trying to come up with yet another way to keep people happy and entertained.

So while I support any new creative idea, my added suggestion would be to let this actually be something people with too many points can go nuts on and let everyone else reach access naturally through time and contributions. This doesn't mean people with less points have to be excluded, but there should be items in there they cannot immediately afford. And even the starter set should be something that requires effort, not just presence.

P.s. Just want to mention that I find complaints of people bidding high in auctions strange. Either everyone bids according to what they can afford, or the whole auction process is no longer an auction, but a "You may have more points than me, but even if you want this set, you should bid less than me so I can win it, it's only fair." event.

All of this ties in neatly with my previous concept. You don't have to be able to be on equal footing with everyone here, it's really not possible. I do agree that huge jumps don't have to occur in an ongoing bid unless you're reaching the final minutes and the actual war is on. ^^;; But some people bid higher to have a chance in case the end of the auction falls into a time they can't attend. So what are you going to do? I don't think the "not fair" argument can be used on auctions, though. Really.

[MiraiKurosaki]

I'm not against any new idea to spend points, but I wonder how many gadgets aarin has to come up with to satisfy every millionaire/billionaire on this site. I realize interests are diverse, but reasoning for new suggestions often mention the poor bored millionaires/billionaires who can't come up with anything to do with their points. Do people get more hungry for entertainment as their points increase and do they feel more of a right to have their individual tastes catered to?

Just because you have points, does not mean they all have to be used. If people with loads of points were concerned about this, they would've just dumped 80% or more of their points in what activities are currently available and with capped interest, the points they owned would still be high, but obviously not as grossly so.

Right now a lot of people are discussing ideas to give the millionaires/billionaires outlets for their loads of points, the flipside of this coin as usual is that this will be another activity newbies will not be able to equally join in on. So another charity group will have to be created, because for some reason new newbies can't be asked to just work for and accumulate points the same way newbies before them had to.

A newbie today needs about four weeks to achieve the same status a newbie from two years ago needed at least one year to accomplish. And they don't have to upload anything, mostly, all that needs to be done is to post in a few of the charity threads and voilà, you have everything most people two years ago had to actually work and wait for.

Wait being the really operative word here. I don't know why it's now necessary for people to join and have everything available to them instantly. In my opinion, this gives them much less reason to stick around. One of the attractive points to me on this forum was the fact you had things to work for. Sure, you would get gifts here and there, but this just made you hot to save and earn your own points to be able to give others fun surprises like that.

These days, I personally don't much enjoy this activity anymore, because unless you're actually trawling the introduction threads, it's hard to find anyone anymore who isn't already loaded with cards and points. To me, gifting turned into a franchise and has grown less personal. And newer members will never realize how much of their own fun has been curtailed. It may be fun to receive all the bounty now, but the boredom that keeps calling for more gadgets on this forum will just set in all the sooner. So you'll be back in suggestions, trying to come up with yet another way to keep people happy and entertained.

So while I support any new creative idea, my added suggestion would be to let this actually be something people with too many points can go nuts on and let everyone else reach access naturally through time and contributions. This doesn't mean people with less points have to be excluded, but there should be items in there they cannot immediately afford. And even the starter set should be something that requires effort, not just presence.

P.s. Just want to mention that I find complaints of people bidding high in auctions strange. Either everyone bids according to what they can afford, or the whole auction process is no longer an auction, but a "You may have more points than me, but even if you want this set, you should bid less than me so I can win it, it's only fair." event.

All of this ties in neatly with my previous concept. You don't have to be able to be on equal footing with everyone here, it's really not possible. I do agree that huge jumps don't have to occur in an ongoing bid unless you're reaching the final minutes and the actual war is on. ^^;; But some people bid higher to have a chance in case the end of the auction falls into a time they can't attend. So what are you going to do? I don't think the "not fair" argument can be used on auctions, though. Really.

Regardless of what it is, if it costs points, those with higher points will have easier access to them (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course). It's not just about boredom either. Like you said, new ideas would be fun to have and try out. But yeah, the idea is that anyone can access them eventually (like cards) with the right amount of points.

As someone who has seen these auction wars, most of the bidders are not bidding high because they'll catch the auction late. They're bidding high suddenly (100k + increments) and are winning a lot more auctions than others. There are those with high points who bid within a smaller increment and that's what use to make it enjoyable, I believe, is what they're saying. I know the hosts can argue they should do an auction how they want, but I'm just saying that there is a valid point to the frustration with how the auctions are now.

I gotta admit I don't know how people gain points more quickly recently despite being new. I never really looked into it but I do remember it being harder for me to have gotten the points I got.

I just want to stress that this isn't to satisfy just really rich people. All anyone has to spend points on are cards and contests, which now have a cap. Sure, they don't have to be spent at once, but I think it is just a matter of trying something new to do with points, regardless of what it ends up being.

I, personally, don't crave more entertainment just because I am rich. I would have complained a long time ago as I don't collect cards myself (just keep very special gifted ones to me)

While some people might be bored, that's now what this suggestion is about.

[darker hei]

I don't assume it's all about boredom for everyone and the current activities can't really provide outlet for everyone because tastes differ, but it won't be possible to provide enough events and activities to suit everyone's tastes, I think that's the point I tried to make there. ^^;; On the other hand, I won't mind at all to see new things going on.

My main point regarding any suggestions is that while it's always supposed to be about fair, you'll never have the kind of fair a lot of people talk about as long as points exist, period.

My kind of fair would be, "You're new, you'll have to accumulate points and wait for them to grow, suck it up like all who came before you."

This means, no, the new suggestion should not be equally accessible to you and no, there should not be another charity event that gives out the new stuff to you for a post or two on your part.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issues with the occasional contest where such amenities as cards or maybe future pets or plushies will be prizes, but I don't agree at all with it being a regular and coordinated event that results in the forum being flooded with items that are supposed to be somewhat exclusive and worked for. Turning card-giving into a franchise was never a purely altruistic move to begin with in my opinion. And if you're going to do that, then just cut straight to the chase and give everyone a welcome packet of twenty million points and their choice of twenty cards. This is why I amended your suggestion with mine to please not turn the new activity into another franchise.

And I understand what you're saying about the auctions and how they go down, in my opinion though, it's just the nature of the beast. I could totally do without auctions if it's just going to be a source of arguments, but I'm not against them in general.

[Arigatomina]

And if you're going to do that, then just cut straight to the chase and give everyone a welcome packet of twenty million points and their choice of twenty cards.

This is what I think when the issue of "equal opportunity to have/win" comes up. Why bother getting lots of points if you don't need them in order to get what you want?

The auctions are a mess already. We have people *paying* others to bid on auctions for them because some auctions limit you to such a tiny increase for each bid that only those who live on the forum and can post really fast have a chance of winning. That's not an auction, it's a reward for posting one-liners every few seconds on the last day. The whole point of an auction is to get rid of things people don't like enough to pay your high 'set price' for, or to get more money for things people would pay more than your 'set price' for. Auctions are about what the buyer is willing to pay for that item. If the point of the 'auction' is to reward the person who posts the fastest, regardless of the price they're willing to pay, then they should be selling them in a shop for a low set price and letting the fastest poster buy it.

I like the limit on contest rewards. Contests shouldn't be giveaways, they should be something you have to work at in order to win. Those with huge prizes should require a huge amount of work to win. If the creators just want to give away lots of points to anyone who posts, there are plenty of giveaway threads for that.

I consider myself in the 'more points than I need' category. But I still consider my points extremely valuable. If I need something I can't find on my own, I can post in the request section and pay whatever it takes to get it. If I want to thank someone for a great post, then I can give them whatever I think they deserve. To me, that's the whole point of interest once you've finished buying things for yourself - being able to buy for others any time you want.

When I see people with half a billion points, I just figure they're either lurkers or they're hording them so they'll have that huge figure under their name. There are tons of worthy posters on this forum who have wishlists in their sigs - thank them by giving some of that excess you've acrued. When you download something you really like and see that the poster has a tiny fraction of the points you have, give them a bonus for giving you the file you wanted to download. You don't need super-expensive cards and elite auctions/sales in order to get rid of those points. Just be active in the forum, look around, and remember there are other ways to thank people than just clicking that little button on the bottom right of their posts. And if you're holding back because point-sending and card-sending isn't annonymous, then join a giveaway thread where you can do it incognito.

I'd have fun with yaoipets and I'd be interested in super-expensive cards, but I don't think it would help with inflation. Once the point-heavy members have bought the ones they want, they'll be right back where they are now. Then you'll have to make something even more expensive. A quicker solution is to encourage people to use the outlets we already have. If there's no super-expensive thing to save up for, people have more reason to spread their points around. We just have to encourage them to do so by rewarding the things we consider useful - active posters, uploaders, helpful members, etc.

[Mordor]

If you don't like how much points you have, and don't know what to do with them..
Empty the savings and donate them to one of the admins.

[fataltea]

The auctions are a mess already. We have people *paying* others to bid on auctions for them because some auctions limit you to such a tiny increase for each bid that only those who live on the forum and can post really fast have a chance of winning. That's not an auction, it's a reward for posting one-liners every few seconds on the last day. The whole point of an auction is to get rid of things people don't like enough to pay your high 'set price' for, or to get more money for things people would pay more than your 'set price' for. Auctions are about what the buyer is willing to pay for that item. If the point of the 'auction' is to reward the person who posts the fastest, regardless of the price they're willing to pay, then they should be selling them in a shop for a low set price and letting the fastest poster buy it.

Absolutely. o_o I've never thought it was unfair for people to bid high. Why shouldn't they? If you have the points and are willing to spend them on a set, then I say, bid what you want. Yeah, it sucks for those that don't have a huge points balance, but it's not as if all sets will go for huge amounts. And.. really, I know I'm a set maker, and I profit from these auctions sometimes, but they're just sets. Sure, you might be in love with it when you first see it, but seriously, you know within a couple of weeks, you'll see another one that you'll think "is the best set ever". If someone outbids you to a degree at which you can no longer compete, then think of it as an opportunity to save your points for a better set in the future.

I like the limit on contest rewards. Contests shouldn't be giveaways, they should be something you have to work at in order to win. Those with huge prizes should require a huge amount of work to win. If the creators just want to give away lots of points to anyone who posts, there are plenty of giveaway threads for that.

I also like the limit on the contests, though it's now being reworked. It won't feel like such a huge competition anymore, just to get people to join a set contest or fic contest, you feel like you have to offer huge rewards.

And like you say further in your post, there are PLENTY of ways to spend points around here. I really tend to feel discouraged when I see a diligent uploader with hardly any points or cards, and then turn around to see a newbie that does nothing but spam (basically), with level 10 cards and a bursting bank account. Instead of giving away points with no real requirements, try giving them to those that upload the movies, anime, doujinshi, manga, etc that you download.

I do like the idea of yaoi-pets, or something along those lines, but it would be an awful lot of work and maintenance, and yeah, it wouldn't be long before people were complaining of boredom again. Besides, the logistics of it, how do you create a pet base that everyone will like? Then we have the problem of people wanting more to choose from, more outfits and accessories, more options. That's a LOT of server space and bandwidth to eat up every month for something that could be accomplished elsewhere.

[MiraiKurosaki]

I don't assume it's all about boredom for everyone and the current activities can't really provide outlet for everyone because tastes differ, but it won't be possible to provide enough events and activities to suit everyone's tastes, I think that's the point I tried to make there. ^^;; On the other hand, I won't mind at all to see new things going on.

My main point regarding any suggestions is that while it's always supposed to be about fair, you'll never have the kind of fair a lot of people talk about as long as points exist, period.

My kind of fair would be, "You're new, you'll have to accumulate points and wait for them to grow, suck it up like all who came before you."

This means, no, the new suggestion should not be equally accessible to you and no, there should not be another charity event that gives out the new stuff to you for a post or two on your part.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issues with the occasional contest where such amenities as cards or maybe future pets or plushies will be prizes, but I don't agree at all with it being a regular and coordinated event that results in the forum being flooded with items that are supposed to be somewhat exclusive and worked for. Turning card-giving into a franchise was never a purely altruistic move to begin with in my opinion. And if you're going to do that, then just cut straight to the chase and give everyone a welcome packet of twenty million points and their choice of twenty cards. This is why I amended your suggestion with mine to please not turn the new activity into another franchise.

And I understand what you're saying about the auctions and how they go down, in my opinion though, it's just the nature of the beast. I could totally do without auctions if it's just going to be a source of arguments, but I'm not against them in general.

Yes, there is no complete fairness in that with points, someone will always have more. But yes, I like how you put it. It shouldn't be something anyone can get easily. That's kind of the idea but, of course, if such a thing is put out, I'm sure it'll be Aarin's final decision.

And I'm sure there are people who are bored though. I think that's just the nature with any forum. There's only so much you can do sometimes.

Just like other things, if you're new, yes, it sucks to have less points but they'll just have to work for the points and hopefully get those items (whatever they be) when they accumulate the right amount

The auction thing...I'm not even sure how that'll turn out I think I'm personally straying away from it because it's just a messy issue altogether. I see the frustration but I know it's also an auction and that can happen. I think that topic will be more addressed (if at all) in the Contest Cap section for September updates

Absolutely. o_o I've never thought it was unfair for people to bid high. Why shouldn't they? If you have the points and are willing to spend them on a set, then I say, bid what you want. Yeah, it sucks for those that don't have a huge points balance, but it's not as if all sets will go for huge amounts. And.. really, I know I'm a set maker, and I profit from these auctions sometimes, but they're just sets. Sure, you might be in love with it when you first see it, but seriously, you know within a couple of weeks, you'll see another one that you'll think "is the best set ever". If someone outbids you to a degree at which you can no longer compete, then think of it as an opportunity to save your points for a better set in the future.



I also like the limit on the contests, though it's now being reworked. It won't feel like such a huge competition anymore, just to get people to join a set contest or fic contest, you feel like you have to offer huge rewards.

And like you say further in your post, there are PLENTY of ways to spend points around here. I really tend to feel discouraged when I see a diligent uploader with hardly any points or cards, and then turn around to see a newbie that does nothing but spam (basically), with level 10 cards and a bursting bank account. Instead of giving away points with no real requirements, try giving them to those that upload the movies, anime, doujinshi, manga, etc that you download.

I do like the idea of yaoi-pets, or something along those lines, but it would be an awful lot of work and maintenance, and yeah, it wouldn't be long before people were complaining of boredom again. Besides, the logistics of it, how do you create a pet base that everyone will like? Then we have the problem of people wanting more to choose from, more outfits and accessories, more options. That's a LOT of server space and bandwidth to eat up every month for something that could be accomplished elsewhere.

It doesn't have to be YaoiPets. We're just throwing ideas (anyone can) but it's up to Dai-kun because he knows how it would go down better than anyone, if something is done involving coding.

And, again, it's not just about boredom. It would just be fun to try something new, regardless of what it is. It doesn't even have to be points-related but we just figured it was a place to start because it might be fun to have another way to use points.

I disagree with having PLENTY of ways to spend points. Even if there were, something new isn't all bad. I don't mind having points and if nothing new is done with them, that's fine (that's just my take on it though).

If you want to debate the contest cap, please do so in the thread appropriate for it. This isn't to debate whether it's a good/bad/soso idea. I don't want this thread to get heated over that too...

Like any suggestion, some people won't like the idea and some will--and there will always be some problems; that's the nature of things. I think people are taking this suggestion a bit too seriously about people being rich and bored. If I, for example, was actually bored with my points, I'd just blow them off on someone like Mordor said (which is what some have done ).

Thanks for all your input everyone, even if you don't like the idea of doing something new with/without points. ^^

And really, it's points. Just points. It's not real money (unfortunately). There's always going to be someone upset with or without a cap, with new functions or not. Aarinfantasy is growing and changes/new things will be implemented, whatever they be.

[BlackCoffee]

I'm going to be completely random here, and say that, there is no way to actually solve the problem with the points. If there is a cap , people will be upset. If there's no cap , people will be upset. If there is no other way to make everyone happy, then just take away points.There is no actual way to solve this problem with out somebody getting angry.
All our ideas are JUST ideas. The person who have to carry them out is Dai-Kun, and if he doesn't have the idea or will to do it.Then the ideas will be void, and the forum will go on as it is. Neither way, the final decision is up to Aarin. Personally, I really think this is getting blown WAY out of proportion.

[MiraiKurosaki]

I'm going to be completely random here, and say that, there is no way to actually solve the problem with the points. If there is a cap , people will be upset. If there's no cap , people will be upset. If there is no other way to make everyone happy, then just take away points.There is no actual way to solve this problem with out somebody getting angry.
All our ideas are JUST ideas. The person who have to carry them out is Dai-Kun, and if he doesn't have the idea or will to do it.Then the ideas will be void, and the forum will go on as it is. Neither way, the final decision is up to Aarin. Personally, I really think this is getting blown WAY out of proportion.

Random or not, thank you. Ideas are just that And all ideas have flaws, too.

[darker hei]

I don't think there's anything wrong with these ideas or the posting of them in the first place, that's what the suggestion section is for, yes? And it being aarin's final call is a given. I don't really understand the things getting blown out of proportion part, I thought we were just voicing out opinions and I don't see anyone being hostile while doing it?
Personally, I never thought of the server load because I'm not well-versed in those areas, but since I know tchan has experience, I'm guessing she knows what she's talking about.

I don't think anyone here is trying to shoot the idea down immediately, just voicing opinions, support and concerns. ^^;;