"Guide to being a good GFX artist"?

I was wondering...

... with the "Guide to being a good customer" firmly in place, why isn't there an equivalent for the other side of the business deal?

There are several issues I've heard gfxers mention over the years that just really make me think it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least discuss what such points could be. This isn't something I think should be posted up, just talked about.

Here's what I don't understand...

Everybody starts somewhere. They make their first tags and unless they are pure geniuses, the likelihood is that those tags can be rather horrid. I know, I've been there (and occasionally still am >_<). However, I also didn't open up a shop and unleash my grave errors in taste on people until I studied and practiced up.

For instance... the basics... you know, colors, composition, rendering, usage of textures and effects, etc.

Now, if I do open up a shop without even bothering with those basics, I really don't think I have the right to b!tch about unworn tags, no rep, no tips... Sure, you're making something for free... but are you, really?
Mind you, there is the exception of people who give advance warning of their lacking experience. In which case ayone who requests should have the decency to appreciate what they already knew they were getting into.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate every thanks, rep, tip, card or whatever people have given me. And I agree that a total lack thereof is a slap in the face. But I think every gfxer who opens up a shop and expects that stuff should at least put some time in to improve their craft.

I've always been a firm believer in a gfx community that helps each other improve. There are plenty of artists here that have a lot to teach and plenty I would like to learn things from. There's a help thread here, there's the Photoshop thread, cabbit just opened a group to let people ask for and offer up knowledge... but I don't see very many people taking advantage of that and that kinda leaves me stumped.
Then again, I've never believed in dragging a stubborn donkey to water, if you don't want to improve, I'm not the one to force you. I'm just saying, if that's the case, please don't whine and moan about crappy responses.

Of course, one notices that a lot of "customers" on aarin aren't extremely discriminating about gfx quality. Yes, there are people who put out stuff that looks just slapped together without rhyme or reason or half a care and those selfsame creations still find ample takers. But as a gfx artist, you can't assume that everyone's taste aligns with yours. To some, it might seem unfair that they slave for hours and get crappy responses while others are just raking in the thanks and gifts and blah, but if you're gonna dwell on that, you're just killing your own motivation and creativity. I'm not gonna lie, I had a phase like that, but getting past it gave me a whole new outlook on gfx.

Personally, I make gfx for relaxation and fun and because I feel I need the outlet. It makes me feel good. I also have a really deep drive to always try new stuff and try to get good at it. Essentially, I make gfx for myself, if the people who receive them like them too, it makes me happy, but I've never stalked anyone to see if they've worn my tags or for how long, etc. Once the tag is outta my hands, it's your problem and I move on to the next.

So, summing up my main points of interest in questions to gfxers of all experience levels (obviously they don't apply to everyone):

- Why open a shop with barely any experience at all? There are always friends to "experiment" on if you're unhappy about responses.
- Why the lack of interest in improvement? Just because everyone's polite on aarin doesn't mean you couldn't use a little.
- Why all the rigid rules and regulations? (Good customer guide, shop rules, etc.)
- Why torture yourself over responses? Relax and do it for your own purposes. Just don't give up on it entirely, it's such a waste.

I'm not posting this because I feel I'm so outlandishly awesome or my views are the be all and end all of all things, but because I'm genuinely curious to hear what you guys have to say about my take on things and to hear your own views.

Heh, I've never opened a shop and rarely even go into the shop area. All those rules and regs and the pressure to make things keeps me away from there.

I started off by inflicting my horrible sigs on people's contests, which I still think is a great way for a beginner to start. You can get a lot of practice in by doing that. The downside to that though is that you won't get much feedback (apart from losing ), while with a shop you can at least get feedback from your customers.

Auctioning your sets is also a good way to see if what you are creating is of interest to anyone. If people don't seem to be interested in what you have for sale, then you just need to practice some more. Don't get depressed about it. The more you make sigs, the better you get--HOWEVER sometimes a person just doesn't have natural talent and no matter how hard they try they will never be as good as the best graphics makers. Everyone cannot be "the best," so don't worry about and and just have fun playing with graphics.

Personally, I make gfx for relaxation and fun and because I feel I need the outlet. It makes me feel good. I also have a really deep drive to always try new stuff and try to get good at it. Essentially, I make gfx for myself, if the people who receive them like them too, it makes me happy, but I've never stalked anyone to see if they've worn my tags or for how long, etc. Once the tag is outta my hands, it's your problem and I move on to the next.

I couldn't agree more.
I see myself as a beginner maybe bordering on intermediate. I make sigs because I enjoy experimenting and usually to distract myself from other stuff I should be doing.
I haven't opened up a shop because I judge I'm not good enough yet so I'd rather throw an auction for my practice sets once in a while. I did consider it though because I think it's easier to make something with a clear description, specific pics etc. - at the very least, it saves you a lot of time in choosing object, color, quote. I dunno whether I will open one though...

I think people wanting their customers to wear their stuff has various reasons: (for the record, I don't demand it for my auctioned sigs)
1. Marketing: hoping others will be impressed and comission you. But I think for that reason you shouldn't make it a rule. If your sig isn't nice enough, the marketing will be rather negative xD;
2. For their ego. Self-explanatory. I wouldn't really care.
3. To make sure people told you what they think honestly. For me, I am less inclined to simply be polite and say they did a good job when they urge me to wear it. In that case I will rather tell them it's not what I expected and they keep it in that case. So I can understand if people are putting up this rule in order to get a more honest response on the sets the customers actually don't like.

I started off by inflicting my horrible sigs on people's contests, which I still think is a great way for a beginner to start. You can get a lot of practice in by doing that. The downside to that though is that you won't get much feedback (apart from losing ), while with a shop you can at least get feedback from your customers.

Me, too! xD I started by entering contests in about September '12. But I got a lot of constructive feedback, probably because I asked for it though. (special thanks to laketica and Nouche for that! ^^ )

About auctions as a measure for quality: I disagree!
I've seen great sigs sell for peanuts and crappy sigs reach great hights just because the anime/characters/... displayed were popular or not. And understandably so. I can relate to some degree. Just now I am really sad Y&N and Di&Bu's auctions have no characters from anime I know as subjects. So I won't be bidding, even though the art itself is really great! On the other hand, though, I won't bid for a theme I like if it's crappy. <.<;

Last but not least: I don't feel like artists give away their expertise willingly and I feel weird if I ask. I found out most of the tricks by trial and error. You won't believe how long it took until I found the layer functions... -__-;

Oceanspirit, you make a good point about auctions! It is true that not so great sigs can reach crazy prices simply due to the character.

This is a really interesting discussion. I thought I would chime in from the perspective of a rank newbie.

I fully admit that I am guilty of all of the artistic issues mentioned above re: perspective, composition, etc. I consider myself more of a 'dabbler' - I just do this in my free time (which is limited) for fun and relaxation. I have no artistic training whatsoever. However, even if the results don’t show it I put a lot of time and effort into each signature I produce.

I'm sure some of my contest entries have received a raised eyebrow or two. However for me, contests are an ideal way to practice, practice, practice without getting super harsh critiques that would really crush me. I really had to work myself up to even try to submit for a contest the first time. Right now, I’m always looking at others work and trying to get ideas. I should try and be a little more proactive about asking others directly for help, but it can be intimidating.

I'd like to think that everyone is interested in improving. I think that the more you do this sort of thing the better your 'eye' gets at figuring out what works and what doesn't. Honestly, for me and many other newbies, we just don't have the discernment to see that maybe our work isn't that great at all. Even in my short time doing this I look back on my earlier work in horror. But at the time, I was patting myself on the back for making the most awesome sig ever. So, take that lack of an eye plus receiving some praise/encouragement from friends and I can see why some people may open up shops. Especially if you work with very popular characters

Hmm...I opened a shop for two reasons. One, at the time, it was the best way for me to practice. Two, since I'm really lazy about hunting for pictures, it gave me a good base, because the customers would give me the pictures. As such, I had a wide variety of characters and picture types to choose from. And if I couldn't work with the pics a customer gives me, I would tell them outright. But since I was new, I noticed I was leaning towards the same type of pictures all the time, and I didn't want that, because it doesn't give me the broader experience that I need.

As for requesting that they wear them for a set period of time, I'll admit that I do this as well. However, I don't actually check to see that they're doing it. Very rarely do I even realize that somebody hasn't worn a set for a full week, unless that person is rather notorious for doing just that. But the reason I request that is much like what you said. If they request, and I do my best with what I've got and with what I'm capable (which still doesn't feel like much), then I'd want them to like it enough to wear it for that long. I make it very clear in my shop that any customer can request that I either make changes to a set, as long as it's within my ability to do so, or to request that I start over. I will, and have, willingly scrapped a set if it's not what the customer wants.

As for wanting rep or tips...I could care less about tips. I get my points from contests, and the occasional auction. And I honestly hope that nobody gives me cards as a tip, because I'm very careful with my wishlist, and being gifted random cards is a bit irritating. If I wanted them, they'd be on my wishlist, but if they're given to me as a tip or something, I feel bad selling them. I do appreciate rep, but again, it's not a requirement (just something nice to have). All I really ask is that they let me know that they've picked it up in the shop. A simple 'thank you' or 'I like it' is more than enough. Because again, if they don't want it, they should be telling me that. I'll try again.

I make a good amount of sets. If I think they're auction-worthy, I'll auction them. If I think they're good but not auction worthy, or if they went through an auction with no bids, I will make them freebies in my shop. If they aren't claimed as freebies, they go into my 'do not use' folder, which is pretty much all the ones that I've scrapped. Ones that I make that I don't think are suitable even for freebies also go into that folder. I do my best not to give people really crappy sets.

And I think a part of it is sort of like the 'Do unto others as you would have done to you' thought process. I have a backlog of sets, mainly through a request thread that I made with about 25 pics that I wanted turned into sets. I got them...all of them. I will wear every last one of them for at least a week, and I keep a set rotation list for just that purpose. Occasionally, I'll get one as a gift, but I am doing my best to get through them all. Since it was part of a request thread, I am technically not under any obligation to wear each set for a week, because I didn't guarantee that I would, but I refuse to hold myself to a lower standard than I request of other people. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Auctioning your sets is also a good way to see if what you are creating is of interest to anyone. If people don't seem to be interested in what you have for sale, then you just need to practice some more. Don't get depressed about it. The more you make sigs, the better you get--HOWEVER sometimes a person just doesn't have natural talent and no matter how hard they try they will never be as good as the best graphics makers. Everyone cannot be "the best," so don't worry about and and just have fun playing with graphics.

I totally agree with this. I'm probably one of those 'no natural talent' people, and I freely acknowledge this. Which is why when a set comes out to my liking, I'm really happy. And because I realize that I'm still not very good at this, despite having been working with gfx for a little while now, I just keep trying different things. Though sometimes I get stuck in a rut, which totally sucks.

I have also found contests to be a good way to try out new things. If nothing else, it usually gives me a character or theme to work with. I don't even care if one of mine wins or not, I just like submitting if I think it's good. Although sometimes, I'll try and discard half a dozen sets for a contest and not enter a single one before the contest ends. Which is why I don't make promises in gfx contests.

Hmmm...I think I wandered off on a tangent somewhere along there, but I'm hoping I answered at least some of your questions, at least from my point of view. Feel free to disagree.

Why open a shop with barely any experience at all? There are always friends to "experiment" on if you're unhappy about responses.
Opening a shop is one the best way to learn other than entering contests and participating in graphics challenges. Sure, making graphics for friends are less intimidating and you can do it at your own pace. Plus it's easier to approach how to make graphics for friends since I know what they like. However, most friends are not nitpicky about details and they don't ask or rarely demand for certain specifications. There are certain things that I would have never thought or do without a little push. By opening shop, I feel compelled to challenge myself and do things out of my usual routines. I get a request with certain theme and I'd try to go for the challenge even when I'm not used to do it or don't like it. It's surprising to see the outcome from using elements/techniques I never or rarely use. Challenging myself to tailor graphics based on requests can be fun at times. Plus, I get feedbacks on what I should improve, unlike when making sets for friends or entering graphics contests. Though opening a shop should only be done after one has had some experiences with graphics-making and feel comfortable to take up requests from others^^

Why the lack of interest in improvement? Just because everyone's polite on aarin doesn't mean you couldn't use a little.
I don't think there is anyone who don't want to improve themselves. Improving oneself means learning from errors. There are times you're able to use your judgement and sensibility to see if there is something wrong/weird with you make. Most of the times, you don't. This especially applies when you lack experience and sensibility in graphics making. That is why feedbacks and criticisms are needed. Unfortunately, there are some people who do not take kindly to gentle reminders and criticisms so they refuse to acknowledge the possibilities of improvements in what they make. Thus the lack of or no improvements in graphics-making skills.

Why all the rigid rules and regulations? (Good customer guide, shop rules, etc.)
While taking request in a shop is a nice way to challenge myself, that doesn't mean that I'm always ready to do it. Especially when it comes to the rules of picture's quality. It takes an extra lot of time and effort to edit crappy pictures and that can be demotivating when it comes to making sigs. It is also annoying when customers are rude or cause unnecessary trouble for set makers (constant urging to finish requests, hotlinking image pictures from sites that don't allow you to do so, etc...). So yes, I believe it's necessary to be rigid when it comes to certain rules applying to making requests. However, it is not to my interest to go to the extent of wanting people to wear what I make for a certain period of time. If a person likes my work, he/she will continue using it as long as they like. I'm happy enough if anyone likes what I make for them

Why torture yourself over responses? Relax and do it for your own purposes. Just don't give up on it entirely, it's such a waste.
It's hard not to do it It's natural to want approval of others even when I make sigs for fun^^;; It's also how you get a chance to improve your skills. A little bit of anxiety gives you another perspective on your work. It makes you think what can be improved in what you're making or what you've made. Over time, you'd get use to the constant need for approval and focus less on people's expectations and more on your own enjoyment in graphics making.

Wow, so many posts... awesome, I love you guys! <333

Originally Posted by Halite75

I started off by inflicting my horrible sigs on people's contests, which I still think is a great way for a beginner to start. You can get a lot of practice in by doing that. The downside to that though is that you won't get much feedback (apart from losing ), while with a shop you can at least get feedback from your customers.

Originally Posted by Oceanspirit

Me, too! xD I started by entering contests in about September '12. But I got a lot of constructive feedback, probably because I asked for it though. (special thanks to laketica and Nouche for that! ^^ )

Friends and contests, that's pretty much where I started out at, too. I agree that contest feedback is nonexistent, unless you ask for it like Oceanspirit mentioned - which I never did, so good on you. ^^ I got most of my feedback from friends back then, but I asked them to cut all sugartalk as I knew it wouldn't help me.

Originally Posted by Halite75

Auctioning your sets is also a good way to see if what you are creating is of interest to anyone. If people don't seem to be interested in what you have for sale, then you just need to practice some more. Don't get depressed about it. The more you make sigs, the better you get--HOWEVER sometimes a person just doesn't have natural talent and no matter how hard they try they will never be as good as the best graphics makers. Everyone cannot be "the best," so don't worry about and and just have fun playing with graphics.

Originally Posted by Oceanspirit

About auctions as a measure for quality: I disagree!
I've seen great sigs sell for peanuts and crappy sigs reach great hights just because the anime/characters/... displayed were popular or not. And understandably so. I can relate to some degree. Just now I am really sad Y&N and Di&Bu's auctions have no characters from anime I know as subjects. So I won't be bidding, even though the art itself is really great! On the other hand, though, I won't bid for a theme I like if it's crappy. <.<;

I'm more with Oceanspirit on this one. I don't think auction responses are a reflection of the quality of your work. I usually only bid on tags with characters I like - with rare exceptions when the work is just mindblowingly awesome and the whole thing just calls out to me. ^^

The natural talent bit... Reviewing my struggles with gfx and trying to get better, I know I'm not a naturally gifted artist, but a work horse. I've had to really buckle down and study the material, study other people's work, try and fail many times to get the results I wanted. I'm a bit of a dog with a bone like that. At the same time, I accept my limitations and I couldn't agree more about not everyone being able to be the best. There's always someone out there more gifted, more skilled, etc.

Which actually leads me to a new point that slightly irritates me when I hear about it - "Person x is totally copying my style". GFX artists on aarin didn't invent graphics and everything I've seen on aarin, my work included, is not groundbreaking new stuff. All these techniques have been around for ages and open to everyone who wants to learn them.

I employ a lot of elements from many different artists, wherever I can find inspiration, I take some of that into my own work and by combining it with my ideas and vision, I make it my own. Flat out copying a complete tag and claiming it as your own, that's a whole different story, but every artist draws inspiration from somewhere and it will influence what they do according to whether or not the results are pleasing to them.

Originally Posted by Oceanspirit

Last but not least: I don't feel like artists give away their expertise willingly and I feel weird if I ask. I found out most of the tricks by trial and error. You won't believe how long it took until I found the layer functions... -__-;

I don't really approach other artists about their "trade secrets" either, unless I have a good rapport with them. And I also believe that to be true, but then I don't really see tag making as seriously as say, an artist who makes his living with his work and his unique style.
And I do believe it... ^^;; I figure you can learn a lot by trial and error, but sometimes the frustration just isn't necessary. ^^

I was always grateful when someone took the time to explain something to me I wanted to learn. I don't want to turn into an x person clone and I don't think anyone would be happy if everything looked the same, but that's not what I do with my learnings.
Giving and receiving is what makes a community and I love working together with others on a subject I enjoy and I just love looking at everyone else's pretties, the more, the better. I think artists helping each other and exchanging ideas lifts everything to a higher level.

@gs1:

You make a lot of excellent points. And it sounds like despite you considering yourself a "dabbler", you are critical with your own work.

I agree that super harsh critiques can be crippling and specially so when received from people you don't really know that well. I have a friend who picks my tags apart with a set of surgical precision tools. ^^ And she does have artistic training. She knows I appreciate her input as it lets me see my work in a whole different perspective. But she also respects the fact that I pick and choose from her advice and implement what suits me and reject what doesn't. Having someone like that is invaluable.

As for asking for help, I hope cabbit's group will draw a lot of people both who want to learn and are willing to share what they know.

And I totally agree with your last paragraph. And quite frankly, I don't just look back on old tags in horror, for a while there I'd make tags and already hated them the second I posted them up somewhere. I always find something to nitpick over. And I used to "correct" tags to death as well, which I've stopped doing. Now I just deem them hopeless and toss them. ^^

I've always thought that aarin politeness can kill creativity and growth. So can huge artist fandoms. Artists get stuck in a rut and end up getting frustrated with their lack of progress because they feel they have to produce what everyone else expects.

But everyone approaches graphics at different levels of commitment and importance in their lives. Nothing wrong with that. It's not that I'm accusing people of sucking universes through a straw because they don't share my perspective, drive or whatever.

To put it bluntly, I just don't get the ones who complain all the time, about one thing or another, yet don't seem to ever look to themselves to find the answer. If people aren't appreciating your work but you want them to, maybe you need to put in more effort. If you feel people are copying you, maybe you need to broaden your horizons and realize they aren't copying you, they're inspired by you. If you don't like how others get more attention with their work than you do, maybe you need to change your perspective and realize your work will not appeal to every person. Stuff like that.

Originally Posted by celtic7irish

Two, since I'm really lazy about hunting for pictures, it gave me a good base, because the customers would give me the pictures. As such, I had a wide variety of characters and picture types to choose from. And if I couldn't work with the pics a customer gives me, I would tell them outright. But since I was new, I noticed I was leaning towards the same type of pictures all the time, and I didn't want that, because it doesn't give me the broader experience that I need.

The pictures is a reason I reopened my shop after a long time of just making tags for friends. That's also a reason I started contests again if they provide images. Picture hunting frustrates me because I literally never find good images on my own. ^^

And sometimes in shop, I'd pick an image I normally wouldn't choose to challenge myself - with mixed results. ^^

As for requesting that they wear them for a set period of time, I'll admit that I do this as well. However, I don't actually check to see that they're doing it. Very rarely do I even realize that somebody hasn't worn a set for a full week, unless that person is rather notorious for doing just that. But the reason I request that is much like what you said. If they request, and I do my best with what I've got and with what I'm capable (which still doesn't feel like much), then I'd want them to like it enough to wear it for that long. I make it very clear in my shop that any customer can request that I either make changes to a set, as long as it's within my ability to do so, or to request that I start over. I will, and have, willingly scrapped a set if it's not what the customer wants.

Well, that's a lot different from hunting people down who don't wear them. ^^ I think the only thing that really irks me in shops are people who don't bother picking up tags. Everything else is just water off a duck's back to me.

I don't offer the option to change anything at all. This stems mainly from an experience I had with one customer who had me alter a tag into complete fugliness and then gave me credit. Geez, don't put my name on that horrid piece of crap. The way I see it, if you don't like what I make, either don't request or don't wear it, end of story. So yeah, changes are usually not an option in my shop unless I offer it on a case by case basis.

Oh yeah, and I don't do do-overs. If I worked on a request of yours, chances are I spent hours on it and I just don't have the patience to deal with the same image over and over.
But I guess if you're pretty upfront about what you're going to do and what not, people know what they're in for and can choose to frequent or ignore your shop at their leisure. ^^
I'm just lazy about the whole rules thing, I tend to slap a few lines in there on what they can expect and that's all she wrote.

All I really ask is that they let me know that they've picked it up in the shop. A simple 'thank you' or 'I like it' is more than enough.

I'll always appreciate reps and tips of any kind, as I give them too, but yeah, that's the basic gist of it.

And I honestly hope that nobody gives me cards as a tip, because I'm very careful with my wishlist, and being gifted random cards is a bit irritating. If I wanted them, they'd be on my wishlist, but if they're given to me as a tip or something, I feel bad selling them.

I hear you on that one. ^^ Though I've never been able to sell a gifted card, just don't have it in me. ^^;;

I make a good amount of sets. If I think they're auction-worthy, I'll auction them. If I think they're good but not auction worthy, or if they went through an auction with no bids, I will make them freebies in my shop. If they aren't claimed as freebies, they go into my 'do not use' folder, which is pretty much all the ones that I've scrapped. Ones that I make that I don't think are suitable even for freebies also go into that folder. I do my best not to give people really crappy sets.

I rarely auction anymore, but occasionally I will. It's been mostly phases of freebies and phases of requests and then nothingness for a while. Matter of fact, longer breaks tend to fuel my creativity. It feels like I start out with a tank of gas and once it's depleted, I just need to refill before I continue. The machine definitely runs smoother on a full tank. ^^

And I think a part of it is sort of like the 'Do unto others as you would have done to you' thought process. I have a backlog of sets, mainly through a request thread that I made with about 25 pics that I wanted turned into sets. I got them...all of them. I will wear every last one of them for at least a week, and I keep a set rotation list for just that purpose. Occasionally, I'll get one as a gift, but I am doing my best to get through them all. Since it was part of a request thread, I am technically not under any obligation to wear each set for a week, because I didn't guarantee that I would, but I refuse to hold myself to a lower standard than I request of other people. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I don't, either. ^^ I change my tags pretty infrequently though, which is why I never hold tag contests and rarely request or buy in auction. When I get a bug up my butt about something like a certain character, celebrity, or gfx technique, I automatically hit photoshop myself and end up wearing my own tags a lot. But the last tag I got from someone here on aarin I wore for 3 weeks, which was fairly recent. I don't think I get hunted down for wearing time, but I like showing off an awesome tag I got from someone and people do comment how much they like it. ^^ I did eventually switch back to my current tag, though I've been told it looks weird, because I'd been practicing my smudging and really, really liked that result. ^^;;;

I'm probably one of those 'no natural talent' people, and I freely acknowledge this. Which is why when a set comes out to my liking, I'm really happy. And because I realize that I'm still not very good at this, despite having been working with gfx for a little while now, I just keep trying different things. Though sometimes I get stuck in a rut, which totally sucks.

I've had to make up for lack of talent with hard work, too, which is why I also really enjoy trying new stuff. I realize hard work only gets you so far, but as long as I'm able to keep challenging myself and getting better, that's enough satisfaction for me. And ruts do suck, but those are my indicator times for a break and those work like a charm. ^^

Hmmm...I think I wandered off on a tangent somewhere along there, but I'm hoping I answered at least some of your questions, at least from my point of view. Feel free to disagree.

Not at all. ^^ I appreciate you taking the time. <333