AarinNerds

Oh, I have a lot more I'd like to comment on, but I don't want to butt in just yet; however, I find what you just said, arinna, about the "screaming uke" characters, very interesting. Why do fanfic writers rely on such characters? Why are childish, almost prepubescent, feminine "male" characters so fascinating to some female yaoi fans?

probably because they DO feel the need to take part in the story, and feminine male characters are their outlet. but what do i know i'm not in their shoes.

I agree with arinna. I feel that the overly feminized uke is pretty much like a woman interjecting herself into the story. Or maybe a writer trying to appeal to women?

So you think fanfic writers want to appeal to their readers? Oh, one thing I absolutely cannot stand is when a writer will leave his/her story "open" and ask, "Okay, guys, what do you want to happen next?" or even "who do you think he should hook up with?"

well, Artemis you should know best, you're a fanfic writer after all - are you trying to appeal to your readers?
yes, i definitely hate open ends too, it feels like a reality smack upside the head, if the story is so good that it keeps you trapped in its universe and the writer decides to make their presence known in such an invasive way. but it rarely happens - with good writers, that is. an ongoing fic is a work in progress after all, the author is bound to pick a few suggestions from the reviewers, if inspiration runs dry, but not change entirely the direction the story is going.

Not at all! I don't mean to suggest that I don't honor and respect my readers, because I do. I write for them in the sense that I need their excitement and encouragement to remain enthused about my own stories. But I don't allow their desires to influence (greatly) the outcome of my stories. For my first major fic, I gave in to demands for a love scene, and was ultimately okay with it, but I regretted having given in on principle. Since then, I've felt okay about not writing love scenes if the fic does not seem to depend upon having one. I do, however, occasionally have ideas sparked by comments that readers make!

Well I'm not the only "writer" here but I'm certainly the most vocal Maybe the others could speak up about the "art" of writing or reading fanfic. In a way, it IS a dialogue between reader and writer, and between writer and original creator, too! There is the idea that the writer cannot stray too far from the creator's original characterizations or canon situations, but she must also inject her own "spin" on the situation.

Having just joined, I wanted to address ArtemisMS's earlier question on possible reasons for the fascination with yaoi. Since I am not male, I cannot speak for why men like yaoi, so I am only analyzing things from a female perspective.

These are several types who may be drawn to yaoi:

- Those with a preference for androgyny
- Females who wish to take on a "masculine" role
- Those who are tired of seeing heterosexual relationships for many reasons (possibly, they remind the person of past memories they would rather forget; they feel like they are supposed to relate to the female in the pairing, when they don't relate to her; they are sick of traditional "romance;" some would rather not see women at all, and yaoi provides an escape from the bombardment of sexualized females that dominate the media; without a woman present, the focus is more on male sexuality and attractiveness; they have pretty much given up on love, sex, or relationships, and they can channel those desires into yaoi as a means to cope; they are stuck in a loveless or sexless relationship (or may be loved or have sex but still have extra "needs"), and yaoi fills those voids without cheating; or they can possibly distance themselves from the situation the characters are in and any emotions, positive or negative, if they so desire)
- Men are often depicted in traditionally "feminine" roles, and this could appeal to those who wish to break out of fixed roles, including those that are gender-related.

Other reasons yaoi could be appealing:

- Yaoi relationships often address societal taboos, which are not often seen elsewhere.
- The men are often a certain type (beautiful, long hair, fine features, well-dressed, low amount of body hair, delicate-looking), which goes against what society considers to be signs of stereotypical male attractiveness (rippling muscles, hairy, short hair, casually-dressed, and thickened facial features). If one does not prefer this "ideal," yaoi is a good outlet.
- There is often a lot of angst, where society seems to expect males to be non-emotional.
- The seme/uke dynamic allows females to put themselves in a dominant position, if they so desire, or to avoid imagining themselves in the situation altogether (since only males are involved).
- Males are often presented in a sexual way, which is rare (females are usually the ones expected to look and act sexual).
- Yaoi can be an outlet for victims of abuse to experience the "repetition compulsion" in a safe way, without harming another person.
- It could simply be the parallel to the affinity many men have for lesbian porn.

Hi Manius!!! to the Group!

Wow, I love your bulleted list there. I see some similarities between my interest in yaoi and BL and what you have listed there

they feel like they are supposed to relate to the female in the pairing, when they don't relate to her -- Indeed, it can be difficult to relate to many female characters in traditionally romantic situations because real women do not always act the way the media suggests they should (e.g. becoming ecstatic over chocolates or diamonds)

they have pretty much given up on love, sex, or relationships, and they can channel those desires into yaoi as a means to cope -- I find this one particularly interesting as well; although I know several happily married women who enjoy yaoi, I think there's something to this.

Wow, thank you so much, feel free to wax poetic and expand upon any of these lol

To digress a bit from discussing the psychology of yaoi, I'm wondering what you guys think of the topic of race (it's sort of a pop culture topic, I guess). As a visible minority (I am Korean) growing up in a predominantly white residential area (in Canada), I'm curious to know what people here think about this concept of 'race.'

My question is: is there such thing as 'race'?

The human genome shows us our fundamental lineage originating from the Somalia/Ethiopa regions, where the ancestor of Homo sapiens branched out. Genetic evidence shows that the variation of genes between different races are barely significant (more than 99.9% of our genes are identical between different 'races').

So wouldn't 'race' be better understood as a power-concept used by oppressors within human history - to segregate and monopolize societies into caste-based political/social structures?

Whether you agree or not that such a concept as 'race' exists, how do you think this justifies (or fails to) the issue of racism?

Wow, I applaud you for being brave enough to bring this issue up. Strictly speaking, I do not even know if it is allowed, because the Main Forum rules request that users not post "Sensitive issues such as anti-gay, military, religion and political issues etc." But since "race" isn't specifically listed there, I guess we can let this go ... for now.

But it is such a painful topic to discuss. I'll try to take it one question at a time.

I wish that race did not exist. However, I personally cannot arbitrarily take away someone's identity. If someone identifies strongly as Korean, Latino, or what-have-you, how can we take that away from him or her?

Because I'm white, I experience no benefit in race identification. I am the race of the oppressor. This is a burden that I was born with. Of course I do not wish to be identified as "white."

There are no justifications for racism.