AarinNerds

hey now, i've got a little bit of pride! i do tend to stop short of actuall necrophelia although some of my tastes are a bit out there

First there is thinking, then there is talking and then...doing.
So we have already thought and discussed necrophilia...

Hi, I'm new to the group. Hmmm, no one's been here for a while. I decided to join for two reasons. 1., I have some theories on pairings and such, and 2., If you guys are talking about something as off the wall as necrophiliac pigeons, I don't have to worry too much about ppl judging me for what I say. Okay, that was a bad joke. Sorry guys. Anyway, a person may lean toward certain pairings of personality types they find attractive, I think. Characters that have traits they would like to have in themselves or their partner, or both. Maybe it's a subconscious thing. The human mind is complicated. Example: One of my fav. pairings is KakashixIruka- I've always loved Kakashi, even before i knew anything about yaoi. Kakashi has a lot of personality traits I like in men, where as Iruka has a lot that I have or would like to have in myself. But there's all kinds of things that affect a person's likes and dislikes too. Am I boring you yet? This is just my opinion though. I haven't though about this particular subject much. Personally, having been raised in a typical christian household, I'm still stuck struggling with the double sided issue of absolutely loving yaoi, and having another part of me going off about how wrong it is. Now don't flip out, I'm not gonna run around here and start yelling at ppl. NOT why I joined this site. Movin on... Hmmmmmm.... Maybe people like particular pairings that they can somehow relate to? Oh, and as far as the pairings being of the same sex- I think every human being out there, no matter how straight, is curious. Even if they're straight their whole life and never ever try anything with another member of the same sex, the thought still crosses their mind probably at least once in their life. Maybe that's why a lot of ppl are into yaoi/yuri- because it's an outlet for that curiosity that they can more easily cope with. If someone's curious about any form of homosexuality, but are uncomfortable with that curiosity, they may develop an interest in yaoi/yuri because it feels 'less wrong'. After all, most of them are anime characters- not real people. But I'm no psychologist...

If You want, check the group "The Anti Doe-Eyed Uke Brigade" and the thread "Seme/Uke Dichotomy = Girly Uke?" - there is wonderful analysis done by Arigatomina about how the women relate to the ukes in a yaoi relationship and which kind of women identify with which kind of ukes in such a pairing. And remember, most of the time if you need to identify with someone to like this person.

Thanks for the post PollyW. I went and checked it out. It provided a lot of food for thought.

Well I personally disagree with that attempt to classify "types" of yaoi/BL fans, but it is/was an interesting discussion nonetheless

AAA, wow, you raise some interesting points ... I would like to address the first one, of liking pairings because something about one of the characters in the pairing fits your description of your ideal man. First off, I would have to allow that that is a distinct possibility for some female fans, especially since you cite yourselves as an example. However, I have to admit that I'm different; I am not drawn to pairings based on my preference for one or both of the characters.

I think the distinction I'm beginning to make between myself and some yaoi fans is that I am a writer. I will absolutely not claim to be a good one, but I definitely think and act like one. So, generally speaking, what draws me to a pairing is their story and how well they interact together. This is one of the reasons why I dislike pairings created between enemy characters; I can't conceive of that really happening, and the resulting relationship would be disastrous.

In fact, my ultimate OTP is just like that. I wouldn't want to be with a man like either Renji OR Byakuya. I simply like them as characters. Their "story" draws me in, and I'm just totally wrapped up in the potentiality of their romance. But Renji is too young and brash and frankly stupid for my personal tastes, and Byakuya is too feminine, stubborn, and, well, he would no doubt think himself better than me. I'm not really attracted to either of these guys. But ... yet it's my favorite pairing.

Then again, sometimes I totally love the seme in the pairing. Gintoki x Katsura or Yamamoto x Gokudera. I think Gintoki and Yamamoto are both EXTREMELY sexy, and they're my ideal kind of guy. And I find a lot of myself in characters like Katsura and Gokudera (or at least self-perceived aspects of myself).

To sum up, I think there's a lot of substance to what you're suggestion; however, it isn't true in all cases ^^ And also, this probably made very little sense because I'm supposed to be in bed

I'll come back tomorrow or soon-ish to track the discussion and check out the rest of your comment XD

Oh, definitely not true for everyone. I'm not sure it's even true for me. I'm just obsessed with Kakashi. And I have to agree with you on your post. Most of it is the interaction and story. Personally, I'm not that experienced in the yaoi world yet. (Still trying to figure out my own psychological stuff on it.) But I think I would be most drawn to characters that have mutual respect. Like you said about the enemies thing. You get kinda wrapped up in how not believable it is, so it's not as appealing. (Unless the writer does a good job.) That, and sometimes I just like stuff that makes me go 'aww, how sweet'. But that depends on my mood I guess. Maybe that's why I like KakaxIru? Hmm. Not just because I like Kakashi, but because they go well together. Whereas some other pairings are either somehow confusing, to darn complicated for some reason, or almost horrifying... As far as the "Seme/Uke Dichotomy = Girly Uke?"- There's always exceptions to everything. But I think it's a good starting point for a discussion. Granted, not everyone likes it for those reasons, or fits into one of those catergories. Sadly, I feel I fit into the tomboy one, and am now wondering about the possibility of becoming a stereotype... But then again, my interest in yaoi came from very..........odd.......circumstances. But all this over-analyzation has started to make my head hurt. I'm gonna go veg out and watch some anime. I gotta start watching some of this stuff so I know just who ppl are talking about...
Okay, that was weird. I just tried to post and it made me log in again... So, sorry if it comes up twice.

It didn't come up twice XD

It's a good starting point, but ... ahh I don't want to discuss Arigatomina's topic when she's not here to defend herself XD I saw you went over to "Doe-Eyed Uke" group, so maybe I'll catch ya there.

I wouldn't worry about becoming a stereotype. There are a multitude of reasons why you have felt and continue to feel drawn to yaoi/BL. You are a complex individual, too complex to fit into any one stereotype. I could use myself as an example: I am generally turned off (interest-wise) by male x female romances. The traditional role of the female is distasteful to me. There are probably many reasons why this is so, based on my upbringing, etc. I enjoy seeing a man in a "woman's position," so to speak. I should say, a woman's "traditional" position. Something inside me is touched deeply by a romance involving two men, whereas with a traditional male x female romance, I am constantly bothered by the presentation of the woman (as weak, as silly, as ruled by her emotions, as intrinsically wanting the man to take care of her ... it's difficult to explain, and all those reasons merely scratch the surface).

Now, surely there is something on a basic, sexual level that I find attractive about yaoi/BL. I would agree with that, although I confess my interest in hard yaoi has waned significantly, and now I much prefer BL. For instance, I don't mind a love scene in a manga, but really don't want to read one in a fanfic (and hate writing them).

I should stop now ... I'm rambling

Nah, you're not rambling. I don't mind. B/c, honestly, I think it helps me figure out my own twisted brain. I'm a woman, and enjoy yaoi/BL. Why? Not entirely sure. I personally am the same way. I'm a chick, and with a man in my relationship, but am the same way interest-wise as far as romance. I guess it just seems like in a lot yaoi/BL the guys are- Well, I'm not sure how to put it. More romantic? Relationships run deeper and are usually more complicated than typical malexfemale romance. Not that complication is a good thing. But I get what you're trying to say. And yuri just makes me want to run away screaming. Not sure why that is either. Girls just turn me off. Geez, I am so screwed up. Maybe I should seek some help... Maybe part of it is also b/c we're in such a male dominant society, women enjoy seeing the tables turned, so to speak.

Oh no!! You aren't screwed up! Please don't think that. Slash romance satisfies something in women. I can't put my finger on it because I think it would require extensive study (and some scholars are already doing that, but I'm not really following the research). You don't like yuri because you are heterosexual and do not feel physical pleasure from watching/reading about two women.

Even though it is the 21st century, men and women are still not on equal footing. A romantic relationship between a man and a woman is therefore by nature imbalanced. A (fantasy) relationship between two men is balanced in a way ... but at the same time, because of the seme/uke dynamic, is not balanced. However, for once a man is beneath another man, instead of a woman being beneath a man.

My theory is that this relaxes and pleases the female reader/viewer, and she is able to enjoy the romance on an entirely different sexual and psychological level. For her, this romance is a fantasy, but one she can enjoy without dealing with the pressures, frustrations, and inherently repressive nature of heterosexual romance.

I do want to emphasize the word "fantasy" though because these are not "real life" gay romances. They are slash or yaoi or BL, and I think there is a major difference. Each genre (gay romance and BL romance) serves a purpose and has a viable audience.