WritersClub!

eliddell,

No problem at all. Didn't mind your tone. I agree that most sites that ask for funds aren't to be trusted. One published writer put it that if they ask for cash, grab your wallet and head for the door. I trust Kathy though because she does screen links and doesn't simply put them up. Plus, the way I found her was through Geoff Landis, a writer who has won nebula awards. He started publishing by getting her, then hard copy, market reports. He suggested that I subscribe to it. Since then I have heard good things about her from other published writers.

Getting an agent isn't easy. I do have another friend who has recently won an award for her play and has had it picked up by a play company. She also has a few scripts licensed by some Hollywood actors' production company. She participated in pitching sessions. I believe she had to pay a small fee to get into the sessions. I could double check.

She managed to find her agent by emailing them query letters and sample chapters. In essence, she got her agent over the Internet. So the market is changing a little. Some legit places are suffering from a lack of publishing opportunities and a surfeit of writers. Weeding them out sometimes takes money.

@Nachtwind: lol, well i am serious about getting "The Edge of Winter" published. im not really sure why i started posting it here, mostly because of you and alem encouraging me, i guess... hn, though i hope that doesnt effect my getting it published later. perhaps i shouldnt have posted it to begin with *ponders*

@melodysnow: My understanding is that if it's a novel-length work and it wasn't posted publically (the board here wouldn't count as public because it's members-only/passworded), there shouldn't be any problem, but take that with a grain of salt, since I've obviously never tried it myself.

@shigrl: Judging from what I know of pitch sessions, they do normally charge fees . . . but I believe that they're also mostly confined to the romance genre, about which I know comparatively little. And yes, it is possible to get an agent by going the query letter/sample chapter route (I know one or two people who've done it myself), but I believe the success rate is on a par with selling to "no unsolicited submissions" markets by the same method (that is, it can be done, but the odds are really against you).

(And there I go with the parentheses again . . .)

@eliddell: mm, i really hope it doesnt. as ive said i know nothing about the industry. this is the only place ive posted any of my works (short stories and otherwise). "The Edge of Winter" is novel length yes, the main reason i started posting it i think was to gauge a reaction. suddenly this all seems very complicated. i was hoping that by posting updates, it would help me keep on track, rather than throwing it down everytime i turn around. *prays the grain of salt is right*

Why would someone need to pay for something he done in first place (excluding criminal works and such stuff X3). But it is true that out there is to many naive people that would fell for it and actually pay the money so frauds can easily live because of them.

I'm not sure how this agent thing works outside as i got interested in that just recently but before i'd ever do anything i'd try to collect as many informations as possible even if that would mean making fool out of myself. I'd prefer do something like that than be disappointed on the end. I'm not blindly trusting to anybody anymore and i hope your the same.
It didn't happened to me personally, but i was in a small circle of less than 15 people. All writers or poetries and we were friends more or less. You'd think that you could trust them but after one year and half a poem of one of us got stolen by someone else in this circle and used for one stupid internet contest where the winner gained nothing special. But that act broke our circle and we all got suspicious. Personally i got hurt really badly but i learned that i should never publish my works that are final online.
I think everybody should take that in account. it can happen in least expected place.

@shigrl: the market is not changing only a little... its changing a lot. It has to. World become small village and now you have writers that on the publishing day they release their book in 2 languages sometimes even 3 .. and they do it all the time (and i'm not talking about bilingual countries or books like HP is).

@eliddell: considering your the author of the story it shouldn't be a problem no matter where you publish your work. Excluding printed stuff i.e. in magazine (its a difference if the magazine is under the publishing company where your work will be published later), competitions, and any other publishings for which you got payed. Your the author and that © belongs to you.
Is true though that companies prefer if you did not publish the work before in any kind of form or at least in small circle (its rare for people to buy something they already read). Either way, if you did, they usually demand you to list them next to your publishings regardless if you've done so before signing the contract with them.

@melodysnow:2 things:
1. Don't get addicted to feedback, once you do you'll not be able to stop posting your works online in desire to get feedback as soon as possible. Or at least that happened to me an bunch of people that i know XD.
2. Don't publish the final work anywhere before you meet agent/publisher/whatever. I don't know if you have several stages for your stories (i do), but definitely do not let out the final work before you start looking for someone to publish your works. Like Nachtwind said you have to be confidant about your story when going around and most of all you have to like it the way it is, you have to think there is not a single word that needs to change its place - regardless what fans say or any serious critic. Putting final work around before going to the publisher might crush your confidence because you will get comments and you just never know what kind of comments you might get. Only my suggestion though.

^everything is based on my experiences in my country.. which happens to be somewhere behind gods back, at your place things may run differently.

@TatsuNess: Yes, I know how the copyright thing works, unfortunately. The thing is, some markets simply will not buy previously published works, because you can no longer sell the the type of rights they want to buy--magazines generally want "First Serial Rights" for any short story they publish--and you can get in trouble if you lie about the status of a submitted work by just "forgetting" to mention that it's a reprint. It's less important with novels, and I believe it's generally agreed that posting in a "members only" venue doesn't count as publication.

And translation rights for novels have been big business for quite a long time--in fact, it's one of the main reasons that some people who are not in the Rowling bestseller league can make a living off their writing, and looking after foreign rights is one of the things an agent does for you. (If you're curious, the other big money maker is options for movies that mostly never get made . . .)

@TatsuNess: Don't get addicted to feedback, once you do you'll not be able to stop posting your works online in desire to get feedback as soon as possible.

haha, im happy to receive feedback period. i dont have many ppl reading my works here aside from my friends so i dont really expect comments, but when i do get one im happy. i dont think that getting pleasure from a comment here and there would necessarily be considered an addiction. just the idea that there are ppl out there who do enjoy my work gives me the motivation i need to push myself.. indirect encouragement so to speak. fortunately im still rather uncomfortable posting things, so no real worries there.
regarding no. 2, i am just now starting to gain confidence in my writing ability. hopefully by the time i finish my manuscript i will have the confidence i need to face a publisher. however i am already against the idea of changing what i have at this point, im happy with my words just the way they are. i think there may be a few places that still need to be tweaked, but i will worry about that once im finished and go over it with a fine-toothed comb.

::Ducks in 12000 words of Escaflowne fanfic later, sees that everything is quiet and ducks out again to finish writing sex scene::

@eliddell. I can tell you that my friend writes anything butromances. We met at Clarion Writers' Workshop, and she mainly writes fantasy, mystery, science fiction and comedy. Romance! The closest she comes to that is the swashbuckler/fantasy genre which tends to have a lot of crossover like hardboiled detectives.

Yes, most markets want 1st publication rights as well as a lot of serial rights, but a good agent can get money for that. Lots of writers get bonuses for each type of publication they get. So if they get a book club, then they get a bonus based on the club and the placement of their book (one of those monthly releases or an alternate) as well as the ability to place further novels. Ditto with screen rights in different mediums as well.

My friend likes to write stories of her screenplay characters first in a different or same contest because after that the characters are hers in screenplays. In other words you keep the rights to your characters and some bozo director can't mess around with them.

As for publishing online. I usually send my stuff to readers; people whose opinion I trust and who can give me intelligent feedback. Some are writers themselves and others are not. As for the trust issue. Another friend of mine had a group that met both online and in person. Yeah it was a hall to drive but we would meet in person to discuss the stories we received via email or forum.

It worked for quite a while. The problem was that there were some who had gotten the non-critical comments on everything they wrote and could not understand why the group might want them to use correct grammar and recognizable English. There was also a range of people who had experience in professional workshops and had been published and those who had no experience. This can be quite good especially for the beginning writer, but the professional or semi professional usually leaves because s/he doesn't get the level of critique needed for him/her to keep improving.

But I think that was the reason no one would steal stories, poems or whatever. Since everyone met face to face, it was hard to simply take something. Besides that stuff always gets out and ruins a reputation eventually.

@shigrl: Turns out the pitch session thing is my error--the matter is rarely discussed in the places where I normally hang out. You're fortunate to have gotten to Clarion (East or West?)--I could never afford the time involved.