aarinfantasy's YAOI Collection

Tiger and Bunny

  1. Artemis Moonsong
    Artemis Moonsong
    So here is one of the discussion threads I wanted to try getting started. If it works out, then great! If it doesn't, then no big deal

    For these threads it's best not to view them if the latest subbed episode has come out and you haven't seen it~

    Epsiode 21
    :
    This episode makes me question what constitutes a memory. What can't be expressed by memory alone and is unaffected by memory? I guess logically the answer is nothing. Nothing worked for Kotetsu. He got through to Karina oh so briefly because he gave her facts, i.e. I talked to you at the piano bar, I gave you the towel. Karina paused because she realized no one but Wild Tiger could know those things. As soon as she saw the "false" Wild Tiger, she was ready to believe that Kotetsu was an impostor.

    I feel like that's rather sad. Really, all our experiences, thoughts, and feelings can be summed up by memory. Wipe that and we're nothing, and nothing in the eyes of the people we love =\ Maverick truly has a powerful NEXT ability.

    I am not surprised Lunatic came to Kotetsu's rescue, though I wonder how well-fleshed out a character he is. Did he really only save him for "justice"? I don't feel Lunatic has been particularly developed. We'll see, I guess. For now, it just seems he was used as a way to save Kotetsu when Kotetsu couldn't convince his Hero friends that he was who he claimed to be.

    Maverick was sloppy. He didn't recognize Kaede (probably doesn't even know about her) and forgot about a man who practically ran Kotetsu's HERO business (Ben). I thought the laughter at the end between the two friends was touching ... kind of sad, really. They both seemed a little bit hopeless at that point. But on Kotetsu's part I think it was a relief that he had finally found someone to place his trust in. The panic in his eyes (in the cab) when he thought Ben might also have forgotten him was utterly heartbreaking. I wasn't really expecting this anime to touch on the theme of loneliness, but now I'm sort of realizing it's a pretty damn major theme, isn't it? First we had Barnaby's loneliness, but his was more of the angsty youthful variety. (I still say that Barnaby is fairly immature, not that this makes him a bad person ... just a typical guy for his age.)

    But Kotetsu's loneliness and fear in this episode was somehow 1000 times more touching and heartbreaking for me. I don't know why.
  2. fataltea
    fataltea
    Lunatic kinda throws me off, as well. His entire place in the story is a bit weird - did they ever explain just how it is that Legend's death was explained to the general public? And, if someone covered it up (which they must have), then who did, and why are they keeping quiet about Lunatic's real identity? Sure, he's (apparently) a high ranking judge, but even someone in that position wouldn't be able to completely cover up the death of someone that was still very much in the mainstream media. But maybe I'm being nit-picky.

    On the subject of Lunatic - and Maverick being sloppy - how is it that Maverick totally missed him in the memory swipe? Hello? He's totally privy to all of the hero's identities.

    Kotetsu's loneliness strikes me much harder than Barnaby's, too. I think maybe because I can understand his feelings better - friends that have forgotten you/moved on (even if this is a supernatural instance), struggling with your own issues by yourself, because you have grown to believe you must be strong and never lean on anyone. Trying to be a comfort and pillar of strength for all those around you - etc. I think these are very "grown-up" examples of isolation, whereas Barnaby seems to experience a more childish variety. He's reluctant to lean on anyone, but with a little coaxing, he becomes extremely dependent. His loneliness is more of a physical thing - he had no friends, and no real relatives, and so was alone. Kotetsu suffers an internal loneliness - he's surrounded by friends and family, but he keeps an emotional barrier around himself.
  3. Artemis Moonsong
    Artemis Moonsong
    I don't think Legend's death or even disappearance from the Hero scene was ever explained... I mean, I don't think we ever saw the public reaction to that and how Legend's people handled that. Do we even know that anyone besides Yuri's mother knows the truth?

    I think there was just the one episode, right? where we saw Mr. Legend's spiral into abuse and alcohol through the eyes of a young Yuri. I thought that was a particularly moving scene, by the way, because how often do some of us have family members and family issues that are hidden from the rest of the world; meanwhile, everyone on the outside thinks things are just fine ... they have no idea what goes on inside a family.

    Maverick missing Lunatic in the memory swipe was a pretty big mistake on his part ... and it feels like on the part of the writers, but maybe we're missing or not seeing something here. Well look at it this way; since they don't know Yuri's a NEXT, maybe Maverick has set it up so that Yuri is powerless to do anything about it. He could say "Kotetsu is Wild Tiger; he's been set up!" But he would look like ... ironically ... a lunatic, because everyone else would be like, huh?? We've never heard of this Kotetsu guy before!

    Gahh I agree with you about Kotetsu's version of loneliness. I hadn't quite thought of it like that. But there's just something about being an adult and thinking back to the time when you WERE surrounded by people ... and how those people have voluntarily drifted away (whether through marriage or having kids or moving away). As opposed to Bunny's simply being an orphan and having a bit of an attitude where he won't let anyone get close to him. I love Bunny to absolute pieces, but I think this is partly because I love kid and teen characters, and Bunny, despite his age, acts like a teenager sometimes in my eyes.

    Kotetsu's inability to get as close to his family as he wants is so heartbreaking. I'm pretty sure I had tears in my eyes during that episode when he went home to visit his mom and brother and Kaede.
  4. fataltea
    fataltea
    Yeah, we definitely were never shown what exactly the public was made to believe about Legend's death/disappearance. And how is it that Yuri's mother never let that huge chunk of information leak? I wasn't quite so moved by the downward spiral of Legend - it just kinda felt to me like an obvious excuse to have Yuri get Legend out of the picture. To have someone that was previously shown as being so extremely dedicated to justice... turn into a wife-beating alcoholic.. that seems like a giant leap. Maybe because of the reasoning they gave him - "My powers are fading, which means I can't save people - so I'm gonna beat my wife." Err. If he had been less of a moral hero, then I could see it. Then again, we didn't see much of him. It feels like a giant hole in the plot, and that's where I believe the writer's fell down on the job. Not erasing Yuri's memories is one thing, since it lead to him rescuing Kotetsu, but not bothering to explain what happened after he killed his own father is like... uhhh, wtf?

    And, you're right about Maverick missing him in the memory sweep - he could have just not bothered since he knew that Yuri couldn't really do anything about it. Then again, you would think he'd want to cover all of his bases. Either the writer's didn't consider this, or they thought it wasn't a big deal.

    Right? As adults, we can understand Kotetsu's feelings. We've been left behind, or forced to leave others behind. It seems to me, that one of Kotetsu's issues is that he can't bring himself to leave anyone behind. He's being pulled between Barnaby and his daughter simply because he can't bear the thought of not being there to support them, even if logically, it isn't possible to be in two places at once. I would imagine he'd feel some paternal instinct toward Barnaby - not just cause of their age difference, but because he's a natural nurturer. He loves his daughter, and wants to be a part of her life, but he also feels responsible for this 'adopted' child. The fact that Barnaby is so immature in some ways doesn't help.

    I also consider - the fact that his wife died after he'd 'left her behind'. Maybe there would be a lingering feeling of doubt? The feeling that 'if I'm not there to protect them, they'll be hurt'. He's obviously reluctant to say goodbye to the rest of the team, too.

    His distant relationship with his daughter is a tear-jerker, for sure. Even though I'm not normally moved by a father-daughter relationship, theirs is a bit unique.
  5. Blue_Star
    Blue_Star
    Ehh, not sure if I'm really smart enough for this conversation but I'm gonna join in anywayXD Look out, here come my sparkling brain thoughts:

    I agree that Kotetsu is a big nurturer, and this takes its mental toll on him. For example, I find it difficult to believe that the only reason he cooked food for Barnaby was to 'make it easier to quit'. When a promise to one's daughter is priority, saying goodbye to a co-worker (and really if you break it down, that's all Barnaby is supposed to be) shouldn't be all that tough. I think one of Kotetsu's biggest 'problems' is that he cares so much about those around him that he sometimes ends up confusing even himself. At first I resented him for not just calling it quits and heading home to Kaede. But then again, his relationship with Barnaby doesn't exactly end at business partners. If he had just left, plotline aside, I bet it would have eventually driven him bat sh*t crazy and he would have gone back anyway.

    About the pins: I have a big issue with those pins from the skating rink. While we're all completely aware that their purpose was merely to help the story along, the fact that Kotetsu actually bought Barnaby a matching pin signaled a big paternal red flag with me. It isn't something a man his age would do for his partner (hate to say it but for a chick it wouldn't be that strange), unless there was either a paternal or romantic interest. While who wouldn't want to see it the second way, it really came off like paternal instinct to me. Kind of in the way when you were out as a kid and your Mom or Dad bought you something unexpected. It sort of says 'Here be happy' or 'You don't need to worry about things because I'm going to take care of you.' Kotetsu also kind of freaked out trying to force it on him. It was meant to be funny, but he was only dealing with the situation in the best way he knew how. Like a PapaXD

    I wonder if the way he acts has something to do with Tomoe or if he's always been like that? With the way he's always begging Kaede for forgiveness, you would think he'd at least spoil her a little from afar. And if he wasn't really that close to his brother, it makes me wonder if he's eventually grown to compensate for that, or make up for his past in a way.
  6. fataltea
    fataltea
    Pfft, whatever, you sound perfectly intelligent to me. XD And you make some good points - especially with the pin. Fanon-wise, yes, it's all very loverly, but sticking to canon here - he definitely is showing his paternal instincts. The spontaneous purchase of matching pins was that very 'papa', 'here, please don't cry' sort of thing to do. Or, as you so aptly described, 'You don't need to worry about things because I'm going to take care of you.' Actually, that's perfect. He might as well have a sticker on his forehead 'I can take care of it! Don't sweat it!'

    I get the impression, because he was eventually willing to walk away and go to his duties, that he wasn't quite so determined to 'always be there' before the situation with Tomoe. Or, maybe she was able to override that part of his personality, and with her death, that part of him came back with a vengeance.

    His relationship with his brother is a little odd. Or, I should say, a little outside of the norm. He actually behaves a lot more like an older sibling, with his desire to shelter and protect those around him, and to be the rock upon which all troubles crash. At the same time, he comes across as being a little too carefree (mostly in how he seems to lose track of time, like being surprised by how old Keade is), which is a more accurate dynamic. But, he does eventually cave to his brother's will, and unburdens himself. I think if they weren't that close, he wouldn't have done that at all.
  7. Blue_Star
    Blue_Star
    Haha thanks ^^; Yeah when the pin thing happened I was like 'what the hell?' and immediately went into immature fangirl mode. But the more I actually thought about it, the more I started feeling like 'No, really. What the hell did he just do?' o_0 The great thing about their relationship is that after a little dash of Barnaby tsun (like the chara CD ---> 'It's not like I wanted to sing with an old man like you'), he doesn't really seem to mind being followed around and fawned over all that much. Every time Kotetsu runs after him screaming his name, he never once (to my memory at least) tells Kotetsu not to do it. While Bunny's surface attitude can make him come off kind of teenager-ish at times, his developed 'clinginess' to Kotetsu as discussed in the main T&B thread might encourage that 'papa' behavior from Kotetsu even more. He chases Barnaby around the same way he does his daughterXD It's almost eerily the same at times.

    You're right about Kotetsu's brother. If they weren't that close he wouldn't have bothered opening up at all. Seems like it might be a very complex story, and in a way that sort of makes it more realistic. Family can be difficult to deal with at times even if you do try your best. I wonder what their father was like? Maybe Kotetsu's Dad was sort of a deadbeat? Hrm.....things to think about.
  8. Artemis Moonsong
    Artemis Moonsong
    Okay, sorry I was away for so long ;_; It's been an exhausting last couple of days.

    Have you guys watched the most recent episode yet? I wonder why Kotetsu stopped calling Barnaby "Bunny" in this episode. I kept waiting for him to say "Bunny!" and for that to trigger Bunny's memory, but that didn't happen. Which is good, I suppose, since Kotetsu was unable to trigger the memories of any of his other friends, so kudos for consistency (as usual) on the part of the writers.

    I just knew Kaede would be the one to restore the memories. As soon as Keith touched her shoulder, I face-palmed. Ugh. But now Blue Rose touched her, so she has freezing power (whatever good that does, especially since the more experienced Blue Rose is right beside her). Interesting that Karina, who has a crush on Kotetsu, is standing next to his daughter ... who is probably all of six years her junior.

    I was quite moved when Karina comforted Kaede by reminding her that her dad was a Hero, and that he'd be okay because of it. I think she's wanted desperately to look up to her dad for a long time.

    I wonder who's in the suit ... I still think it's a robot! I can't think of any characters who are unaccounted for. It could be something totally bizarre, like Mr. Legend (not dead after all!) or even Kotetsu's brother (hence the similar powers).

    Sorry, not very "Geezer" like or intelligent commentary on this episode, but I think I'm too braindead to want to devle too deeply Still probably one of the most exciting and heart-pounding episodes so far. I genuinely don't know what's going to happen.
  9. Blue_Star
    Blue_Star
    Yeah, I was suprised at Karina too. She wasn't overly upset or jealous, and she even comforted Kaede about the whole thing. Although yeah, it would still be weird to keep crushing on a guy when you and his daughter have an awkward age gap like that, and she's standing right thereXD God I would feel guiltyXDD

    The weekend is here, so that means the next episode is coming up! Can't wait to break it all down and analyze it :B *nerds*
  10. Artemis Moonsong
    Artemis Moonsong
    Just saw the latest episode

    Wow, okay, for once I actually called something ... sort of LOL I thought it odd that Kotetsu had started calling Bunny by his real name in the previous episode when he honestly hadn't called him that since episode 1. But apparently it was all just a set-up so that when he did finally call him "Bunny," Bunny would react. So much for the belief that memory is ephemeral...!

    But I like it. Because if you think about it, this negates the evil scientist guy's theory on robots, that they're better than humans. Okay, so it's that old android versus humanoid argument, right? Classic science fiction stuff, reminds me of Philip K Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" So the suggestion there was that the difference between humans and androids (supposedly) was that humans felt empathy whereas androids could not (but I think it can be argued that the humans in that novel struggle to experience empathy as well, and that the definition is therefore invalidated).

    Here the suggestion seems to be that whereas a robot once programmed a certain way cannot be dissuaded (i.e. Cis), a human being (Bunny) can because, as one of the Heroes said, human beings have hearts. I find it interesting, too, that we have the comparison between the evil scientist and Maverick; both are "controllers/engineers," with the scientist guy controlling robots and Maverick controlling people.

    I don't really mind it. It's pretty romantic! ("Romantic" as in idealistic, not romantic love.) But what isn't more romantic than a Dickian worldview lol

    Kotetsu saved Bunny through the power of the heart ... which he referred to as "friendship." Right, just friendship, I'm sure. NOTHING MORE THAN FRIENDSHIP xD
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