Points for beta-ing ^^

Now for me or other *million pointers* its no problem *paying* a beta. How about the newbies or those that do not have that many points?

Can we offer some perks to encourage more Aarin member to beta?

It can be set up similar to the way Point Mod gives out points for contest only this would be between the author and the mod.

Mods would work out any of the many details that may go wrong with the system. As I'm sure some will point them out. O_O.

I just thought this may help readers and writers, as well as help the numerous students out there that love reading have some talent in grammar / English and no other way to earn points. :)

Not that I'm really one to talk but I'm just a bit confused about how specially appointing a mod as an intermediary would be of help in this situation. I get the part about members who don't have a lot of points needing help from the staff of sponsorship from others with lots of points but... it's the same old song, no?

I'm not sure it's staff that needs to get involved so much as maybe, members who need to devise a "system" that will allow beta/readers and writers to announce and bid on beta-reading jobs in a more organized manner. A designated area in the Fiction or Points forum or social group maybe?

Not that I'm the one who needs to understand this or you're in any way obligated to explain it to anyone but staff... and it's entirely possible that I've completely missed the intent in what you're suggesting.

Personally, I don't like this idea.

- Point-system is supposed to reward people for their hard work, just like rep-system, correct? Nowadays it's too easy to get points, without having to do much anything. I think 'newbies' should earn their points, so they could "pay" for their betas. Not just come here, and trust that forum will "pay" them a beta.

-The FPM's already give out points for manga, and help people with contests. If you start "paying" for this as well, the point-system might lose it's idea totally. (Like..people starting to come up with more and more ideas to what mods should pay them for, instead of earning them~)

-Everyone greedy enough would want to be a beta, and it can get out of hand. They might think it's as easy as just checking the mistakes with inserting the text to Word and correcting the ones marked with red and so on. Doesn't matter are you actually good in English or not. Call me a cynic, but that's how I see it.

Miko :lol: I think you got it...for the most part ^^
Not a separate *mod* postiong..but I mean Aarin could utilize Point Mods, to donate to beta readers.
If I wanted to host a contest and PMed a Point mod for points. I usually explain what kind of contest I'm hosting and then she (in my case) has always said ok. ^^

So I suppose asking/requesting points from a Point Mod for a beta work that's been completed would kind of work along those lines. :-k When I suggested that the points would be between the author and the Point Mod, I mean I wouldn't expect a mod to chase down beta's to see if they've completed the work. That would completely be up to the author to request Point Mod help and verify that they received the service from the beta. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morgandy

Personally, I don't like this idea.

- Point-system is supposed to reward people for their hard work, just like rep-system, correct? Nowadays it's too easy to get points, without having to do much anything. I think 'newbies' should earn their points, so they could "pay" for their betas. Not just come here, and trust that forum will "pay" them a beta.

-The FPM's already give out points for manga, and help people with contests. If you start "paying" for this as well, the point-system might lose it's idea totally. (Like..people starting to come up with more and more ideas to what mods should pay them for, instead of earning them~)

-Everyone greedy enough would want to be a beta, and it can get out of hand. They might think it's as easy as just checking the mistakes with inserting the text to Word and correcting the ones marked with red and so on. Doesn't matter are you actually good in English or not. Call me a cynic, but that's how I see it.

---

Yes I see you *point* O_O Well it hasn't (as far as I know) gotten out of hand in the contest / game section or download forum.

But this is why I suggest the mod and author work out what is appropriate for beta-ing. Like in the manga section, the amount of points a person receives for particular up loads is determined by moderation. If I up load without reading the rules, then I wouldn't receive points for it.

This is just a suggestion, in the end it benefits the community and I found when I worked with beta it improved my writing greatly and to some extent my writing has improve. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morgandy

Personally, I don't like this idea.

- Point-system is supposed to reward people for their hard work, just like rep-system, correct? Nowadays it's too easy to get points, without having to do much anything. I think 'newbies' should earn their points, so they could "pay" for their betas. Not just come here, and trust that forum will "pay" them a beta.

-The FPM's already give out points for manga, and help people with contests. If you start "paying" for this as well, the point-system might lose it's idea totally. (Like..people starting to come up with more and more ideas to what mods should pay them for, instead of earning them~)

-Everyone greedy enough would want to be a beta, and it can get out of hand. They might think it's as easy as just checking the mistakes with inserting the text to Word and correcting the ones marked with red and so on. Doesn't matter are you actually good in English or not. Call me a cynic, but that's how I see it.

---

Agreed on that. My first card was given to me by a card fairy, sure, but then I went into contests, and I remember my first 40.000 chunk of points came from six hours of work transcribing a piece of music by ear so I'm biased to comment on that. I'm a little bitter at how easily people are getting cards and points now. Hehe.

But onto the actual issue, I agree that a big problem would be greedy folks beta-ing. I love the people of the AF fiction section, but I'd be naive to think that all of them know even the most basic rules of grammar and mechanics. That's not even including the fact that rules change all the time (and I can attest to that since I see these rules changing from Literature to Literature class in my uni).

I think there are services set up, if the person cares enough to look, that offer good beta-ing. One of them is the perfectimagination website. I was a PI beta back when I was heavily into fan fiction, and the test you have to pass to even become accredited is brutal. I think there are plenty of good tools out there for those who want them.

I think having a team of betas with "salaries" might be a good alternative (or just volunteers). A Harry Potter fan fiction site I have a couple of stories on called GrangerEnchanted has teams of betas that beta everything that comes through (and if there are a certain number of mistakes or too many for the beta to catch, the story is rejected, and the author is sent a note) according to shifts.

If we're going to do anything, I think something like that might be a good idea. That way you have people who know what they're talking about at least spot-checking the entries.

Regardless of how it's done, however, I think a beta system on AF is a good idea.

Actually I'll do it for free. This thing with the point is pretty ridiculous actually...IMHO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by libertypo

Actually I'll do it for free. This thing with the point is pretty ridiculous actually...IMHO

---

There's nothing wrong with people wanting to be compensated for their time and effort.
Nothing wrong with wanting to devise a means of facilitating that either.

Oh goodness me... another longwinded, tl:dr deserving post...

I think the idea of involving forum points as incentive for betas is a double edges sword, so to speak. It might help get more betas, but there's the danger that those betas aren't interested in their work. Having points involved increases the chance of people doing it just to get points, and not because they want to help or want the practice.

When it comes to rewarding hard work, I think betas do deserve a reward. Being a beta isn't easy (providing you actually care about doing a good job). Giving a beta points for a job well done is something I can get behind.
I am also not opposed to giving an author free points to pay for a beta. The points will be going to the person who is doing the betaing, and not the author. Instead of points the author gets a (hopefully) better story to post. This will also benefit the fiction section and the readers.

Having said all that, I do have to say I agree with Miko though. I don't see why a mod should be appointed for either giving out points, or setting authors up with betas. I think we would all be better off if we work together to find a functioning system for connecting betas and authors. One that doesn't have to go through a moderator.
I also think that points for incentive, with it's benefits and problems, shouldn't be the primary concern if the current system isn't working the way it should. (It would be a bit like giving out the prizes before the contest has started. Makes more sense to set up the contest first and give out the prizes afterwards, yeah?)

Personally I know very little about how a system like that would be set up. I don't use a beta and I don't beta for others. I'm entirely too unreliable to want to get others involved in my writing, or involve myself in other people's writing. (Trust me, I'd disappoint you.)

Anyways, here's how I'd go about trying to figure it out. (This is just me rambling away, seeing as I'm not involved with betaing at the moment. I may be getting completely ahead of myself...)
Is the beta thread in the fiction section not working the way it should?
No clues there for me. I'd have to investigate a bit, seeing as I never go there. I saw a lot of requests, but have no idea if any of them have been accepted.
Any suggestions for an easier way for authors and betas to find each other?
Several threads, divided by fandom maybe, or rating, or genre? Make it easier to find someone specifically for your story or style.
Any ideas for different kinds of incentive for betas, other than points?
A beta of the month, or beta hall of fame perhaps? Adding a little competition to it might provide some incentive, to both beta a story and do a good job of it. Maybe have a recommendation thread of sorts, where authors can praise the betas who did a good job.
Any other suggestions?
Maybe have a kind of "I would like a beta, but I'm broke" thread, where regular members can donate points to authors who can't afford it themselves. (I certainly wouldn't be against donating some points to members who wish to improve their stories.)


I'm gonna stop now. I think this post has gone on long enough... I don't even know if I made any sense. I think the bottom line for me is that even though I support giving points to betas, I think jumping straight to giving away points when/if there is a problem with the system would be getting ahead of ourselves. And getting a mod involved won't solve anything unless the regular members work at it too.
(What was that... like 14 dollars worth of opinion? I'm gonna go be quiet somewhere now...))

Great post Ferus37.

I've been mulling it over the past few days and I think the following would work if people supported and the staff would allow it:

A Beta Reading & Reviews sub-board in the Fiction section.
The following could be stickied topics:

1. A listing of beta readers/proofreaders willing to work for free.
2. A listing of beta readers/proofreaders who will only work for points.
(Let's face it, time and skill are valuable. People have the right to want to be compensated for it)
(It would make sense that people would need to post in each thread if their availability changes at any time)
3. Fan Fiction Review Requests
4. Original Fiction Review Requests.
5. Sponsorship Requests (For writers who want to request Paid beta's but don't have enough points)

I think the rest of the board would be very useful for off-the wall requests, commentaries, and related discussions and tutorials.

The fact is - a single thread in the fiction section doesn't really accommodate everyone's needs anymore, at the moment. Chances are something like this - or something similar to this might fill all of our current needs.

Note:
People with worries over unskilled/inarticulate people doing betas just for the points have a very valid concern.
Maybe there could be some sort of system where everyone has to do something like at least three (3) Free betas and get a positive grade from each requesting author before they qualify for for the Paid beta listing...?
Then - and only then, could they be moved from the Free beta reader listing to the Paid beta reader listing.

I definitely think some changes could be made to the current system as I (and I'm guessing I'm not alone here) wasn't even aware that we had a beta system.

I think the point of having a mod or something like that was meant to help logistically and organizationally. It's harder to keep a thread organized if no one's willing *to* organize it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miko

Great post Ferus37.

I've been mulling it over the past few days and I think the following would work if people supported and the staff would allow it:

A Beta Reading & Reviews sub-board in the Fiction section.
The following could be stickied topics:

1. A listing of beta readers/proofreaders willing to work for free.
2. A listing of beta readers/proofreaders who will only work for points.
(Let's face it, time and skill are valuable. People have the right to want to be compensated for it)
(It would make sense that people would need to post in each thread if their availability changes at any time)
3. Fan Fiction Review Requests
4. Original Fiction Review Requests.
5. Sponsorship Requests (For writers who want to request Paid beta's but don't have enough points)

I think the rest of the board would be very useful for off-the wall requests, commentaries, and related discussions and tutorials.

The fact is - a single thread in the fiction section doesn't really accommodate everyone's needs anymore, at the moment. Chances are something like this - or something similar to this might fill all of our current needs.

Note:
People with worries over unskilled/inarticulate people doing betas just for the points have a very valid concern.
Maybe there could be some sort of system where everyone has to do something like at least three (3) Free betas and get a positive grade from each requesting author before they qualify for for the Paid beta listing...?
Then - and only then, could they be moved from the Free beta reader listing to the Paid beta reader listing.

---

I think that this system would be the most ideal at this time. I'll try to have it set up tomorrow.

That sounds great. Umm, another thing I wanted to note about a listing of betas:

Some beta readers work exclusively with only grammar and mechanics while some work with characterization and things like that also. I think it'd be good to have in the beta profiles which betas are willing to work on helping the author stay canon and in-character and in which fandoms they know the characters and settings well enough to help with those sorts of things. Then, some betas are gentle while others are tougher and are willing to knock a chapter back and forth with you a couple of times. Some betas won't work with some fandoms or ratings or warnings.

So, what I'm really trying to say is that there should be some sort of a profile each beta fills out that lists strengths, weaknesses, what they're willing to do, what fandoms they're willing to work with, their estimated time of finishing a chapter, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GenericWit

That sounds great. Umm, another thing I wanted to note about a listing of betas:

Some beta readers work exclusively with only grammar and mechanics while some work with characterization and things like that also. I think it'd be good to have in the beta profiles which betas are willing to work on helping the author stay canon and in-character and in which fandoms they know the characters and settings well enough to help with those sorts of things. Then, some betas are gentle while others are tougher and are willing to knock a chapter back and forth with you a couple of times. Some betas won't work with some fandoms or ratings or warnings.

So, what I'm really trying to say is that there should be some sort of a profile each beta fills out that lists strengths, weaknesses, what they're willing to do, what fandoms they're willing to work with, their estimated time of finishing a chapter, etc.

---

Thank you for the suggestions!

Okay, the new subsection has been added. I am still adding threads, and will most likely add more tomorrow when I have more time.