aarinfantasy's YAOI Collection

Debate: Feminism, a step to far?

  1. Phoenixangel
    Before I start I'd like to say I am in fact a girl..and I am very glad we no longer live in the pre feminist era of total obedience to a man....
    However, have we gone to far with this?

    Women these days are almost expected to be on par with men, which is fine. If they weren't also expected to continue to do traditional 'woman' jobs as well such as raising the family....
    A good friend of mine is very feminist, she strongly believes any woman who stays at home and raises kids, never really getting too far in the working world is 'betraying her gender and wasting her life'. I remember getting into an argument with her when I was talking about getting married, she made me feel like I was somehow less of a person because I WANTED to have a family not a career.
    Perhaps this isn't exactly feminism, more just the aspect I see a lot of around me.
    More and more women are being given the same opportunites as men, which is great; after all equality is the way forward...
    But has this gone to far? A lot of my friends practically raised themselves because both their parents were out having their careers where once upon a time a mother would stay at home and take care of her children.
    Is it fair for those of us who don't want a high flying career to be looked down upon for not taking the opportunites presented to us?

    Surely equality is about having the option to do whatever you want or be whoever you want, not having it forced onto you?

    And if we are going to fight to be equal to men surely this should go for everything? There are still a lot of jobs out there who make special allowances for women with children, pregant women and make special efforts to make work environments more suitable for women...
    I read in a newspaper a little while ago a mechanic had been asked to take down a playboy type calender in case it offended a woman who has just started....
    surely if we are going to go and do 'man' jobs we should be prepared for a 'mans' environment?
    A father often isn't allowed time off if his child is sick or needs picking up from school..so why should a woman in the same job be allowed?

    It seems a lot like we want out cake and eat it?
  2. Ohjisama
    Well in my opinion which is always 100% uncreditable in the eyes of feminist just sololy for the fact I'm a guy and it is an impossible argument because they straight up refuse to talk to men about these kind of things, Any ways I think we can't be equal 50/50 it is impossible to share something perfectly even physically we are different women and more suited for some things men are more suited for other sure women can work in car repair or another job that is typically a masculine job but there won't be a 50/50 split there. Males will probably always be more of the workers while women stay at home more often. Why you might ask well it isn't because I hate females or I'm anti feminist but because women have to go through child birth they can't be working that entire time and they can't share that with the husband a girl will never get the male pregnant. Females also can breast feed the children while the males can't! While females are outraged about this well males CAN'T do a lot of that sure we can change dipers and try to keep the kid happy but we will never give birth or be able to take care of the child on the same level. Female equality is very good right now and we are definitely pushing it with more extreme feminist pushing things that they shouldn't. Your friend sounds pretty crazy to me and she doesn't seem likely to have a family at her rate. Not saying it is impossible but just not likely and if she does like you said the kids would probably feel terrible if the no one was around to take care of them. The father could always be there but men don't make that great of parents by themselves it seems I know I for one would be terrible at it being just there by myself. Also I would get along terrible with your friend I can't stand extreme feminist they drive me crazy everything thinks I'm some anti-women crazy stone age person but really I'm not we are different I don't think we can compare male and female very well at all.
    Also if the feminist have time to screw over the U.S. like always they really need to help some countries like Saudi Arabia where parents can marry off their 14 year old daughters to rich people who already have 3 wives.
  3. ghettoe
    You have unfortunately showed that sexism still exists. For one, I'm interested as to why you wrote 'man' jobs and 'man' enviroment. I'd like to know why you put that in quotation marks because I believe that to be more your opinion than a general opinion. Men are actually allowed to take time off if their children are sick. The only thing they are not granted is maternity leave because they don't get pregnant. If men got pregnant this would be a different story, but ofcourse women have priviledges when they are pregnant. Carrying a baby around is not easy! This really is not an issue about equality because men can't get pregnant. It's just that simple. If men could get pregnant and were being denied these rights, then this would be an equality argument. I honestly feel most of this argument was your opinion. You make an awful lot of general opinions which lean more towards your opinions.

    I am with your friend on the woman just simply wasting her talent. I was raised in a family of working and independent women. Infact, the men in my family were lazy and spent most of their time at home. I don't see why anyone (man or woman) would want to sit at home with the kids and pretty much deny themselves the opportunities of the world. Baking pies and changing diapers is not my idea of fun. Ofcourse, you can attribute this to the fact that I hate kids. I took a babysitting job out of monetary needs and I simply hate it, but money calls. I never want to be a house wife. I have goals and dreams that go beyond the kitchen. Sorry if you happen to want to be a stay at home mom, but I can't understand why you'd want to be. I really don't think that's a feminist issue, but more my personal opinion. I just don't see the joy of staying at home when you can go outside and spread your wings. In my opinion, it's like a bird choosing to live in a cage, when the cage door is wide open.
  4. Phoenixangel
    i didn't mean the quotation marks like that, i meant them in the way of typical jobs that are usually associated with men. i.e mechanics are typically men, and often the environment feature typical men items such as nude model posters etc and (this isnt opinion it's a story i heard a few years back) there are women who go into these jobs and expect the material to be taken down because they deem it offensive.
    i appreciate nude models can be considered tasteless and probably isnt appropriate for a work place, but it's a garage...you expect that...as a women it's not fair for you to enter a typically male environment and expect them to watch they're behaviour on your behalf. if women are going to enter typical male roles they need to learn to deal with everything that goes with that.

    maternity/paternity leave i totally get obviously men don't have to carry or have the baby, but women do complain a lot about allowances not being made for them as mothers, and they don't seem to realise the benefits they do get.

    Well that's your right ^^ and that's my point, equality is about having the option to do whatever you want.
    i don't consider it a waste of my talent to stay at home and raise my children, i can honestly think of nothing i want more.
    You on the other hand want a job and career and not so much children. which is fine.

    What i don't like is the expectation that because we CAN do both we SHOULD do both. i don't like being made feel like less of a person because i'm not taking advantage of the equal rights i have.

    Yes, a lot of what i've said is opinion. But you only have to look in newspapers to see loads of articles about women insisting the only way they feel good is if they have the same career as their husbands. Or kids left at home with nannys while mum goes out to work because that's what our society has been telling her is the only acceptable method of living.
    It's like anything, in moderation it's good but the extremes are damaging.
    I don't want a world where i'm expected to stay at home and be a good little wife.
    But i also don't want to be sneered at because i choose to stay at home.

    i have always felt equality is about giving people the choice, it's pointless if you use it to force them out of one bad situation into another.
  5. ghettoe
    I have a question for the stay at home idea. Do you expect your husband or significant other to bring in the money?
  6. Phoenixangel
    thats the general idea....hence why families traditionally consist of two parents....
    obviously if we were unable to afford to do that then theres not much choice. both my parents worked when i was born but when my sister was born my mum gave up work to look after her until she went to school at which point she got a job that allowed the hours to fit in with raising two kids.
    the point isnt that i expect to be able to not work while my husband/partner brings all the money in. my aunt is like this and her family have struggled for years because of her unwillingness to go to work 'because of the kids' when in fact it was laziness, and she pisses me off.
    the point is you cannot expect to have a high flying career that requires hours of dedication and time AND raise a family...
    traditionally men have worked to earn the money to support their family and women have worked to raise the family. i'm not saying it needs to be so rigid, some circumstances dictate that the man may stay at home, or that both may have to work. but these days people seem to have kids because they're expected to then they abandon them to a nanny while they go and have their career because it's expected of them or because thats what they really wanted, i simply feel it has gone to far in the other direction.
  7. merraz2590
    Hmm... It's seems like there are many mixed ideas about this topic.
    I agree with Phoenixangel. Though I am loathe to the idea of being a mother and raising a family and all of that, I coincide with the idea that everyone has the right to do whatever they want to.
    Legally men and women may have the same rights but its just not the same. Not all woman want to have a big paying career. Thats completely understandable. Not everyone is ambitious and prefer a more down to earth lifestyle and cannot see how that is supposed to make anyone less of a person.
    My mother was a nanny. The kids she used to take care are much older now, because she had quit a few years back and it's as if the entire household is falling apart without her. Really not fair to the children who's mother never truly cared for them like most mothers should.
    Today in the modern world most marriages consist of a partnership in which both parties reciprocate in everything. From emotional to economical issues. Which is why it would seem fair for the mother of the family accomadate her life around having children and a job, maybe not a high paying or prestigious career, but something that will help around the house. And if thats the case, then the father/partner not occupied with taking care of kids would most likely take on the most consuming career. Seems pretty fair trade to me.
    @ghettoe: I also hate kids. I had the same babysitting experiance as you did. And I can't stand the idea of being tied down at home. I would rather become the full-time professional chef I am studying to become than to be a mother. But, if it weren't for my own mother who worked three part-time jobs, took care of the house and still had the time to raise three children (four if you count my dad XD) I wouldn't have gotten this far, which is why I have a deep respect and awe to all those brave women who actually WANT to have kids. To me they are the ones who have flown the farthest.
  8. Phoenixangel
    My mother was a nanny. The kids she used to take care are much older now, because she had quit a few years back and it's as if the entire household is falling apart without her. Really not fair to the children who's mother never truly cared for them like most mothers should.
    I think this is the most important point. I have no problem if women don't want to have kids, i have a very big problem with women who have kids and palm them off onto other people.
    I think these days a lot of younger women don't fully understand the responsibilty that having a kid is. I'm looking around at my friends who are all getting to the age where they're thinking of settling down etc and i am honestly terrified for them. Because they are still so very selfish, which is fine when all you have to worry about is yourself, but if you've got a kid you're life does revolve around them to some degree and if you're not prepared to deal with that then don't have them.

    if a marriage was totally equal and both partners did exactly the same thing you'd never achieve anything because you can't have both of you going out to earn huge amount in a fantastic career, because who's going to look after the house? At the same time you can't have both of you at home because who's going to earn the money??
    A partnership is not about being equal in that respect, you need to have one person doing one set of things and the other doing the others.

    we've hammered it into society so much these days that everyone is equal and everyone should be doing the same things that we no longer work together to achieve results because people are unwilling to accept that sometimes you have to step back and accept a different role.
  9. migz
    finally I'm able to join the conversation XD

    anyway personally I hate the idea of females rising up against males to fight for "equal rights" because instead of getting equal rights they're accomplishing a little too far -.-
    personally I'd say that a female is no more and no less then a male but... dont freaking try to MAKE yourself more or less >.<
    if I'd get married in the future and my wife would tell me that she wants to stay home all week to take care of the kids... I wouldnt allow that -.-
    seriously I think that's selfish...
    instead I'd try and get part-time jobs for the both of us so we can both work and both stay and take care of the kids
    but I just think its unthinkable for females to just asume that they can make such a big decision like that! >.<
    same goes for males for that matter >.>

    there's also something called a woman's day... which is fine by me actually.. gives extra attention to females...
    but in return atleast allow us to make something called a men day or something >.>

    if you get it... so should we ;_;

    in countries where rights are indeed unfair its fine for females to rise up...
    but in countries where its not unfair (kinda like where I live, netherlands) I just think it goes too far -.-

    truth is... females are more... emotional by nature and males are more practical...
    so the more emotional a female is the higher the chances are that this female is submissive and looking for stability which would be usually males...
    and males obviously seek power (not proud of that) so they'd obviously be willing to help these females in return for some loyalty >.>

    and there are several females who dont lack stability and are more practical... some of these females end up becomming feminists because they do not like the way males behave (I can understand that >.>)

    problem is... some of these females think they are MORE then males...
    and this is when almost all males retaliate because they feel supressed by these few females >.>

    on the side note, I'm male 0.o
    and I kinda prefer dominating girls so I kinda prefer to have the female in charge... but as soon as the female is like... treating me as if I'm nothing... I'd definatly get pissed and rebel and all ^^
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