Suggestion: Remove defunct scanlation groups from DNP list

[dragon695]

I think it is only fair that once a scanlation group folds (read: NOT assimilated into another group), they should no longer have the "right" to request their "work" not be posted here. This is especially true if they've nixed their website. People are still interested in the work, but most other groups won't bother. The rationale being because it is a needless waste of time to re-scan and re-edit something that has already been done. Most likely it is also considerably harder to obtain raws for older works, as well. Lastly, I remind people that the actual "work" in question never belonged to them in the first place, but rather it belongs to the original doujin-ka/manga-ka. I do not see how this can be unreasonable.

[Gizmo]

I agree with this post very strongly.

I was also thinking this earlier. Why do certain scanlation groups -- whose whole "aim" is to popularize the manga-ka's works to online audiences -- almost think of the manga scans as THEIR work, and think that they're entitled to keep a mangaka's work from everyone?

What I don't understand is why they think they have the privilege to make the author's work inaccessible. They, in support of the manga-ka, translate and scan the work so to publicize greater this manga-ka. That is the purpose (mainly) of scanlation groups. So, why then, do they prevent accessibility when they themselves decide to shut down? The whole point was to make everyone access the manga scans in the first place. And on that note, why do they think they have the same rights as the original author in terms of distributing the manga, when in all reality, they are only "soft" (i.e. internet) distributors and unofficial translators?

Scanlation groups are fans who want to promote the author: they are not the official representatives of the author, or the author herself/himself, and therefore I don't see why they've any right to stop distributing something they were never the authority of in the first place, especially after they shut down.

It makes no sense. It contradicts what these scanlation groups say they want to do, and are supposed to do. That is the essential point of having scanlation groups! To make the author/original manga-ka MORE accessible to larger audience, and then to gain greater recognition of the original manga-ka. It is not to claim they can stop access to the manga's scans whenever they want, and then to stop all distribution of the manga's scans, and also say that they have the right to do that.

By doing that, they seem to be hypocritical. They've removed the original author from the picture, and replaced it with their own scanlation group.

I disagree, if they put the effort into doing the scanlation they should have the right to choose what happens to their "work" regardless of if their "team" or "website" is no longer together/closed. Just my view

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by darkparagon

I disagree, if they put the effort into doing the scanlation they should have the right to choose what happens to their "work" regardless of if their "team" or "website" is no longer together/closed. Just my view

I can see what you mean -- scanlators put a lot of work into scanning and translating projects, for sure. But, don't you think it's kind of hypocritical (and wrong) that these scanlation sites who say they wanted to promote and publicize the author, suddenly (because of their own failings) decide to prevent the author's work from being publicized and promoted?

By stopping distribution of the manga scans because scanlators think the work is theirs, hurts the original manga-ka in that his/her promotion is being stopped.

Could you explain what you mean when the closer of an scanlation site prevent works been publicized and promoted. It is just I was under the impression compainies would not want those groups around anyway because they lose out on money, because people would rather just download the manga, then buy it..........Could be wrong!

Or are you meaning the creation of the scanlation groups provents the publication and promotion of the work in question? Because I understand that point to!......



Just want to see your point a bit clearer

I still say we should respect the work they put into it, no matter what sistuation!

[Artemis Moonsong]

Translation of all kinds is considered an art; we should respect a translator's wishes, whether it be the latest translation of Beowulf or a translation of the latest BL manga or doujin. Just my thoughts

[Isan]

I strongly disagree against this also. While the manga belongs to the mangaka, the fan translation used in the scanlation belongs to the person that did it and as such they should have a say about what happens to their work. Let's be reminded that scanlations as a whole are illegal (even if it's not licensed in the US, which is not the center of the world btw) and it's only natural that some groups would rather have some means of control over how it's spread to minimize the damage. While most would argue that scanlations benefits the mangaka, that's absolutely not the way it's viewed in japan. It's like saying downloading a pirated movie off the internet benefits the film industry because it makes a lot more ppl see said movie. And while it hasn't happened yet, I can still see the day where japanese companies start sending C&D to scanlation teams. Mangaka and japanese publishers do lose money because of scanlations and those loss by far outweight the gain they get from ppl buying manga in japanese because they liked the scanlations. Let's be realistic, that's a minimal percentage compared to the thousands of ppl who enjoy their free scanlations and wont ever buy anything in their original format. And while I'm at it I'll also point out that buying the licensed version only encourages the US companies and what little money the mangaka do get from foreign deals is laughable. All those manga with mangaka artists in crappy 1K apart eating ramen all week really isn't a joke. Most artists are not well paid, far from it. If you really want to encourage the mangaka personally, buy their manga in japanese.

Sorry for straying from the main point heh

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by darkparagon

Could you explain what you mean when the closer of an scanlation site prevent works been publicized and promoted.

Scanlation sites want bigger recognition of the authors they love. Right? So, they go through a lot of effort to scanlate their favourite works and put them up online for people like you and me to download (and enjoy).

By doing that, they are promoting the author's work. We downloaders read and enjoy the author's work, and maybe, some of these downloaders who read Japanese will go and actually buy (give money to) the original work, thanks to the scanlators.

It is just I was under the impression compainies would not want those groups around anyway because they lose out on money, because people would rather just download the manga, then buy it..........Could be wrong!

That's a good thought! However, scanlators only scanlate works that are NOT licensed -- that is, those that English publishing companies haven't bought to distribute. They only scanlate works that would be unavailable anywhere else outside of Japan. They distribute these works to promote the author and her works better to foreign audiences.

This is to again greater promote the original author to a bigger audience outside just Japan. They do this out of their love for the author or even just the work.

Once the author's work becomes licensed officially by an official distributor, then scanlators no longer can scanlate the author's manga for free. This is because the official distributors would lose money, like you said, and the author would lose money too.

Or are you meaning the creation of the scanlation groups provents the publication and promotion of the work in question? Because I understand that point two!......

Just want to see your point a bit clearer , on your meaning

They prevent the promotion and internet publicity the original author if they decide to suddenly STOP making available their scans, just because they failed as successful scanlation groups.

The whole point was to make the author better known to foreign audience by the internet. When groups shut down, and they say they want their works to stop being accessed and downloaded, they are stopping the promotion of this author. They are ceasing and cutting off the author's recognition with a non-Japanese audience.

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by Isan

While most would argue that scanlations benefits the mangaka, that's absolutely not the way it's viewed in japan. It's like saying downloading a pirated movie off the internet benefits the film industry because it makes a lot more ppl see said movie.

I think the only way scanlations would be similar to pirated material if the scanlated works are officially licensed by an English distributor. Films pirated online are already licensed by the MPAA, hence they already have a distributor. This means people lose money if you download films online. Unlicensed works by Japanese authors are not like that, because there are no distributors who've licensed the work (a.k.a., "bought rights" to the work) in the first place. No one owns rights to the English distribution of the work.

Unlicensed works outside of Japan don't have distributors. No one can lose money if you download an unlicensed manga that doesn't already have an official distributor, unless this is done in Japan, because there are no distributors in the first place.

And scanlators only scanlate nonlicensed material. You can say it's like scanlations can are the "sample" of the real thing. For instance, translations of manga scanlations are wrong a lot of times, editing is bad (even sometimes full of grammar errors), and scan quality of manga scans is also not too great. So, they are like rough drafts of the real deal, given out in order to promote the work. And like samples, scanlations are used to promote the original product. Scanlations will and do promote the author and his/her work.

And while it hasn't happened yet, I can still see the day where japanese companies start sending C&D to scanlation teams.

I highly doubt this for two reasons:

1. English distributors pay to license an author's work. I assume they give this money to the Japanese publisher. When a scanlator scanlates a manga's work that's not licensed in English-speaking countries, they are increasing publicity of the work and author at hand. If an English distributor realizes that there is a market for Japanese authors, then this might lead to buying a distributor's license to the author's work -- therefore profiting the Japanese publisher.

To break it down simply:
English company realizes many people are interested in yaoi manga translated into English. --> Buys license from Japanese publisher ($$! goes to author), so they can make money off this. --> English publisher sells Japanese author's work legitimately in English market.

This helps the Japanese publisher and the original author, thanks to the recognition to foreign audience brought on by scanlations.


2. Japanese companies are only hurt insofar as if their Japanese customers read and understand English. Manga is translated into English, right? The Japanese consumer would only be interested in downloading free scans if they can access the scans in the first place. I don't think many Japanese readers would show interest in downloading mediocre-quality, non-readable English-translated manga, when they can go out and buy the original manga in their original Japanese for only about $3.00 US from their local bookstore.

[Isan]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

I think the only way scanlations would be similar to pirated material if the scanlated works are officially licensed by an English distributor. Films pirated online are already licensed by the MPAA, hence they already have a distributor. This means people lose money if you download films online. Unlicensed works by Japanese authors are not like that, because there are no distributors who've licensed the work (a.k.a., "bought rights" to the work) in the first place. No one owns rights to the English distribution of the work.

Unlicensed works outside of Japan don't have distributors. No one can lose money if you download an unlicensed manga that doesn't already have an official distributor, unless this is done in Japan, because there are no distributors in the first place.

And scanlators only scanlate nonlicensed material. You can say it's like scanlations can are the "sample" of the real thing. For instance, translations of manga scanlations are wrong a lot of times, editing is bad (even sometimes full of grammar errors), and scan quality of manga scans is also not too great. So, they are like rough drafts of the real deal, given out in order to promote the work. And like samples, scanlations are used to promote the original product. Scanlations will and do promote the author and his/her work.

I won't bother arguing with you because I feel it would be pointless, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Transforming a manga a mangaka did in japanese into something else without the japanese publisher's permission is illegal. When doing a scanlation, the scanlator is going to ERASE the japanese words to replace them with something else. The only reason japanese publishers havent made a move yet is because nobody is supposed to be getting money from it so they dont have much legal leverage besides the Copyright issues. But thinking japanese publishers don't care is very wrong. If you look at Libre's website they attacked BeBeautiful (US yaoi manga co) quite publicly for doing illegal translations and distrubitions of something that they had no right to (exactly like scanlations, the only diff is the money). That's all I'm going to say about it.

All manga are already licensed and published in japanese so saying it doesn't matter because it's "unlicensed material" brings me back to my point of the US not being the center of the world. It's not because it's not licensed in the US that's it's okay.

Seems I did end up arguing Oh well~ I said all I had to say on this subject. It's a bad idea not to respect ppl's wishes and requests is all, no need to add anything else.